Friday, March 13, 2009

Open Thread: #421 Daybreak Part 1

Please read our spoiler policy before you post on the open threads.

Past 4.5 open threads can be found in the index on our blogroll rightside column. If you know of other fun sites or forums that are having lively non-spoilery episode discussions, please feel free to post links here as well.

Writer: Ronald D. Moore
Director: Michael Rymer


BAMFTime said...

Everybody hold on, it's going to be and all too swift 'jump' to the end :-) :-(

Mark said...

I could have used more than zero answers.

Jarmel said...

I can't believe I'm saying this, but that episode was horrible. It was too shallow and we didn't really get any interesting character tidbits(except maybe Baltar but they didn't do anything with it). This should have been a previous episode and another one should have followed it giving more background info. It just was a crappy episode and right before the finale:(

Hieu Le Bui said...

yeah Jarmel, I thought the episode was moving way too slow.

Anyway here's the promo for the series finale.

Justin Van Alstyne said...

This episode was complete crap, just like the last two character pieces. At a time when we would like some frakking answers, all they give us is meaningless flashbacks to Caprica without any resolution of who the hell Kara Thrace is, what the hell is going on and where the end of this show is going (besides to a battle royale where I just dont see how this many questions will get answered in two hours). God that was frustrating, I'm not even going to bother watching the final.

Robert said...

The old girl's taken us this far, and I'm going to see her through to the end. It's like the old man said, "she won't let us down, if we don't let her down."

crone51 said...

I thought it was absolutely gorgeous.

Hieu Le Bui said...

@Justin Van Alstyne, oh please you know you'll be there like the rest of the planet witnessing the end of the best show on tv ever created.

thekid965 said...

I have a gut feeling that "Daybreak" wasn't supposed to be cut up like it was, that it really should be viewed as one three-hour film in order for it to make any sense. For that reason and only for that reason I'm withholding all judgement, good, bad or indifferent, until next week.

As a standalone episode, "Daybreak, Part I" is certainly... lacking, to put it kindly. I won't go so far as to say "sucked," though I certainly won't take issue with anyone who thinks it did (in fact, I predict that'll be the majority opinion). If it turns out that this was Act One of something that was not planned to be cut up this way - that is, if "Daybreak" was supposed to be a single three-hour episode rather than one standard ep and one two-hour one - my opinion will of necessity be altered. Until then, I can't judge it fairly, so I won't judge it at all. Yet.

Justin said...

I had a completely different reaction to the episode. I thought it was great and the flashbacks scenes were beautiful. They all had a touch of sadness to them because we all knew what was going to happen to Caprica.

I mean, have a little faith, people! After all this time, I trust RDM and the rest to give us a satisfying finale. Every single actor and person associated with the show loved the last script. Every one! Yeah, I guess this was another of those set-up episode some people love to bitch about, but I loved every single second of it.

Mike H. said...

This is likely to be a one way trip.

There, I just gave away the entire penultimate episode of Battlestar Galactica. They know they have everyone watching so part 1 of the final episode was alllllll set up. And the entire set up was the same set up that was in the trailer in which the Admiral said a very enunciated "this is likely to be a one way trip" (Adama knows when speaking to a large crowd, you gotta project). Final mission is coming, pick sides, that's it. Pretty lame episode. It took ~50 minutes to get to the scenes from the trailer ...

and then that was basically it. Apparently this time they decided to forgo the preview shots not because they had crazy stuff to reveal, but because they didn't have enough material.


/Crazy excited for final episode

Jarmel said...

The main problem I had with this episode was the some of the flashbacks were too shallow and didn't go far enough into the psyche of the characters. What did the bird scene and Lee show us about Lee(if it's symbolic of his relationship with Baltar then it's still very weak). The Admiral finding his determination with the photo? Wasn't that the whole point of last week? It just seems that the director tried to touch a bunch of characters but it ended up being run and gun.

Not to mention some major things happened off screen like the Chief being thrown in the brig and Anders magically pulling out the location of the colony.

Next week will no doubt be jaw dropping amazing but it seems that much more could have been done with this episode and it feels wasted. They should have inserted more flashbacks in previous episodes so they could have inserted some heavy psyche interesting ones here(like delving into Adama and Lee after Zak died, or continuing with the Baltar and the father line, or what the final five were doing).Wtf about Tory, no backstory for her?

Eric H said...

Mary McDonnell absolutely blew me away with Roslin's appearance on the hanger deck. Somehow she made it heartbreaking and uplifting all at once. It was breathtakingly moving.

So OK: even though all the flashbacks were fascinating -- we never really saw the world they lost -- yeah, I was all "AUUUGH!! ZERO ANSWERS??!!" But I am trying to remember this is a 3-hour finale and we have only seen the first third. This was just the first movement to what just may be a beautiful symphony. If I'm peeved at anyone, it's SciFi for not airing all three parts together.

Brett Copeland said...

Everybody who thought it was horrible need to stop being such mother frakker's and enjoy the ride. I think it's time to accept that we might not get all the answers, but do you really need to answers to care about this show?

These characters are what drives it. The mythos is important but the politics between the characters makes it worth watching. Those Caprica pieces at the beginning showed how far these people have come, gave us some insight into who they were so that we can witness what they've become on this journey.

I, for one, have decided to consciously stop trying to guess what is going to happen and just enjoy every scene until the end. I made that mistake with Islanded. I'm going to bet that when a new scene pops up I'll be surprised and enjoy it a lot more if I'm not already trying to measure up what it means.
There's a lot of time for "in retrospect".

We've got two hours of great television left. This is our last chance to watch these characters and our Galactica stand up, fight, fall or triumph.

If you feel you must prepare yourself to be disappointed, you're probably going to be. Whatever end is coming up, I'm going to enjoy every last second of it. And curse those long damn commercials.

Also, the upcoming battle is going to be incredible. Who can't get excited about that promo?

Anthony said...

There were no "answers" per se, but I think it's important to appreciate the setup of Six, Baltar and Kara. I can be fickle and gripe that there were no answers, but frankly I feel like there really is something beautiful coming. If there isn't I'll burn down the establishment with the rest of you, I promise.

Think about it: baltar's never done anything heroic. Ok, so finally, in Daybreak 2, he will. He may sacrifice himself, or me may take it upon himself to lead what remains of humanity to the end, etc.

As for answers about Kara, I think I'm seeing the greater point RDM is trying to make: it's not the answers that define us, but the questions we dream to ask.

ProgGrrl said...

I'm not watching this show to get an answer to every plot detail that has ever been brought up. So it is getting harder and harder for me to understand all these complaints about "filler" episodes...and "don't worry, you'll see, they'll tie it all up next week." You all need to prepare yourselves to accept that the show we've been watching for 9 weeks is actually not filler. It's actually the experience...and some of you seem to be missing it.

I have a preference for shows that leave some things up to the imagination of the audience. No one who has been paying attention to what RDM has been saying since last summer when the show was wrapping ("it's all about the characters stupid"), should be the least bit surprised about what season 4.5 has been like. Stop expecting every last little question you ever had about this show to get answered. Start enjoying the journey and the craft a bit more.

This episode with all it's Caprican flashbacks, made me actually more excited for the next series, for CAPRICA. The scene of Cap Six and Baltar in the limo...Roslin with her sisters...Kara and Zak hosting a dinner for Lee...gave me chills. If you are in love with all these characters by now, I would have assumed many of you would feel those chills. Rather than getting wound up in the who-dunnit-isms (and red herrings) woven into the plot. When has this show ever been about giving us all the answers on a silver platter?

Really enjoyed it, can't believe it's ending but I cannot wait for the rest...

Brisotope said...

Well, here's what I liked...

i LOVE anything having to do with Caprica City.
I LOVE the Baltar/Six backstory stuff and the lake house. And tonight was no exception.

It was interesting to see some of Laura's backstory.
As always, Lee was absolutely boring and I wish he'd die. Seriously.

But the Caprica stuff hasn't added to anything so far. Feels like trivia. Can they really make Baltar's fathers backstory relevant with only 2 hours left??

The rest of the story added very little but setup for the "final battle" which is a cliched staple of scifi.
Still though, great acting and some beautiful scenes...didn't we all think Baltar was gonna man-up and cross that line??

God, I hope RDM can pull something wonderful out for the final 2 hours. It should be quite a ride if he can!
And I hope Sitrep will be a non-hostile place to a lot of the negative opinions many of us honestly have about 4.5

Hieu Le Bui said...

I hope the finale doesn't take place in a diner and ends with the screen going black in the last five seconds.

Mike H. said...

@Brisotope "didn't we all think Baltar was gonna man-up and cross that line??"

Who's to say that he's not gonna Han Solo it in the end?

Kate said...

@Brett--I agree with what you said, especially this: We've got two hours of great television left. This is our last chance to watch these characters and our Galactica stand up, fight, fall or triumph.

If you feel you must prepare yourself to be disappointed, you're probably going to be. Whatever end is coming up, I'm going to enjoy every last second of it. And curse those long damn commercials.

I really enjoyed this episode, and also agree that we've only seen the first third of the final chapter. I loved the flashbacks--some not so surprising and some very surprising things. I'll be interested to see if/how they are connected to the events taking place in present time, or what significance they hold.

Waiting for next Friday will be like approaching the end of a really, really good book...I desperately want to know how it ends, but I don't want it to be over once I get there!

thekid965 said...

@ProgGrrl Well said, very well said. I concur. Sometimes, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey - and some of the best TV shows have left some unanswered questions behind.

With that said, however, there is one thing I don't think we're going to get an answer to, yet to which I feel we must have one - the why and how of Starbuck's apparent resurrection on Earth. And the reason I don't think we're gonna get this one spelled out for us is in the exchange she had with the Old Man, where he basically told her "It doesn't matter what happened to you, it doesn't matter what you've become -- all that's important is that you're you." That, to me, sounds like a dismissal of a plot point I think we viewers deserve a clear-cut answer to. Maybe we'll find out in the finale, maybe we won't.

Other than this, I sometimes liken these things to 2001. Did 2001 bother to explain things like "What is the Monolith?" or "Why did HAL malfunction?" or "What was up with the Star-Child?" No - and the speculation about the details was fueled for years and years. In fact, when 2010 came along and did unravel most of the mystery surrounding its predacessor's storyline, it was fairly well slagged off upon, not because its explanations were unsatisfactory (though in some cases they were), but because it took the mystery out of it!

Now, suppose -- just suppose -- that BSG is the same way. That we will get a sense of closure to this story and these characters, but some questions will deliberately remain unanswered to preserve a sense of wonder and mystery surrounding the universe and the way we as humans interact with it. If this is me barking up the wrong tree and "Daybreak II" gives us all the answers we could ask for, so much the better. If I'm right... well, there is certainly worse company to keep than 2001 in this genre.

Kate said...

Oh! And I loved that Lee was the first one to cross that line. I was prepared to yell at my TV if he didn't cross it! :)

Justin said...

@ thekid965

Great 2001/2010 analogy. I've never thought of it that way, but I like the comparison.

@ Mike H.

I think you're right - I'll bet 5000 cubits that Baltar will definitely "Han Solo" it in the end. :-)

Theorist said...

This episode, or episode fragment, did have a purpose. I think it served to reconnect the characters in our minds with an everyday life that looks like ours. With all the weeks of Cylon mythology and history that we've lived through, the show lost some of its sense of tragedy and seriousness. What we saw tonight brought that back: these are the lives and futures that our characters had and lost.

Anders, now lying with his head shaved in a Cylon vat talking gibberish, was once a ballplayer who gave your basic ballplayer-type interviews to sports reporters, and loved it. Baltar had a cantankerous Alzheimery father and sort of cared about him. Starbuck made dinner. Roslin had a family tragedy, but also some hope of new beginnings. I found all this intensely touching, particularly when we then cut away from Caprica and found ourselves back on Galactica.

Showing us normal life on Caprica made situations we had gotten used to on Galactica seem strange and terrible all over again. I think that was the point of the episode, and I guess it will be crucial to what follows.

By the way, I also found Caprica 6's behavior in the flashbacks interestingly human and touching. There might also be a plot point here that had not occurred to me before. I'd always assumed that 6 knew her real mission the whole time she was on earth. (The way she casually killed the baby in the miniseries certainly suggested that she was evil and knew it.) But was she in fact, like Boomer, programmed with false memories to think she was human -- until she was "switched on" some time during the events of the mini-Series?

thekid965 said...

One last comment from me... Dr. Sherman Cottle, eh? Now, knowing from various sources that RDM was/is a fan of M*A*S*H, what do you suppose the odds are that our favorite chain-smoking, grouchy CMO was given that name in honor of Sherman T. Potter?

Probably remote, but it's neat to think that RDM managed to slip in one little homage like that under the DRADIS.

Travis said...

In my view SciFi really frakked up airing only the first hour of a three hour episode so I think it's a little silly to judge it based on having only seen 1/3 of the episode.

At this point the mystery is all about the String Puller and I see no reason to think RDM is going to just leave that out.

I loved the scene between Adama and his "daughter". The opening shots that led into the Caprica flashback were very cinematic and a nice touch. Baltar has been my favorite character since the beginning so I liked the set up for him. Daybreak looks promising...what little we saw of it.

KZ said...

The Flashbacks SUCKED. Waste of time, you might has well have just advertised the previous season DvDs instead. I mean come on people, play to your fraking audience who's watched the series up to this point. We don't need flashbacks, we need answers.

I swear, every time I saw a flashback I just thought "Someone's trying to sell me on a stupid Caprica prequel!" I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not going to watch Caprica (prequels suck), I'm not going to watch SciFi channel (Greedy Bastards) ever again after next Friday and if I dont get some good answers and some fraking closure next Friday I am not going to buy any more BSG merchandise (no more DVDs, apparel, etc.) I've had enough! I will no longer be at the mercy of people with dollar signs in their eyes.

Greg Cotten said...

I think people who are hating on this episode are not the real fans of BSG and also have no appreciation or understanding of good narrative storytelling. Daybreak Part 1 is superb. Stop asking to be spoon-fed.

As intelligent human beings, we should celebrate non-linear storytelling and unique ways of telling stories. God knows we could use more of this originality in television today. I savor every bit of BSG because its boldness to use new and different methods of storytelling. A lot of people complained about the "slowness" of the past few episodes. I thought they were brilliant, for the most part. They took their time, and didn't do the normal "TV" laundry-list rush-thru episodes like the normal tripe on the tele.

Get some education, grow up, and rewatch the series from the beginning, and you'll see what you've missed.

Greg Cotten said...

KZ - What are you talking about? Most of the stuff that we learned in the "flashbacks" were things that we had never known NOR seen before... Did you watch "Daybreak Part 1" or something else? (maybe LOST?)

Grant Gould said...

I personally LOVED this episode... The flashbacks were amazing. I loved everything. For me, the show is first and foremost about the characters. Yeah, I like action and I like having answers, but I'll take an interesting character flashback over a gunfight any day. Kudos to RDM & Co. for being unpredictable and telling the story the way THEY want to tell it. I can't wait for next week's big finale.. :)

And I'll post this, too.. If anyone wants to see all the episode reviews over at, here's the URL:

From what I've skimmed there, reactions seem to be mostly positive. The main complaints at this point are "We're not getting answers fast enough."

Ryan said...

Great episode. Yes, the haters are not real fans. You can all go back to watching Stargate and other one-dimensional crap!

General Boy said...

There's too much confusion . . .

I'm at a friend's house, but I convinced him to let me watch the episode. Next: "Religulous" (no, I haven't seen it yet).

Anyway, I see a lot of hate directed at this episode. I will read the comments more closely tomorrow. Me? I loved this episode. What a wonderful bookend! I was deeply touched by the scenes on Caprica. "Waste of time"? Well, that's relative, isn't it? I loved the juxtaposition of ordinary life on Caprica with the brutal life on Galactica It put everything in perspective for me. It felt like the miniseries, and it brought me back to that feeling I had when I saw the show for the first time. it was great!

Answers will come.

I want to talk more about the episode, but I don't have the time right now. Much love to all the BSG fans - it's all coming together. Enjoy it. I'll check in later.

Jarmel said...

Just because some people feel that this episode was not well written as a character piece does not make them fans, just means that they thought it was a bad episode. We're not even talking about the magical revelation Anders had...

Greg Cotten said...

Jarmel, you just don't get it. They hate the fact that it (Daybreak Part 1) IS a character piece. It's an extremely well written one at that. You're not getting the point.

Personally, I thought the episode was brilliant. And yes, I do believe that people that disliked the episode are not REAL fans. Meaning they don't understand what BSG is actually about: the CHARACTERS.


Jarmel said...

If they hate the fact that it is a character piece then they are probably watching for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't make the not fans.

As for the writing, this episode had two major events happen off screen that should have been explained, first Anders somehow finding the Colony even though this was never explained and should be pretty much impossible(maybe there is some extended scene in the DVDs) and the second is the Chief being thrown in the brig.

The character parts were too shallow especially in regards to Lee and they didn't focus enough attention on it. As some other people have mentioned, it should have been expanded into a whole episode and possibly trimmed down another episode so we can get more backstory on other characters. Looking back, certain arcs could have been trimmed such as Caprica Six and Tigh so we could get more backstory on the Final Five and what they were doing(instead of a few flashbacks). They didn't go far enough and it certainly seems other characters could have used the backstory(looking at Tory and the Chief).

KZ said...

Greg Cotten, get off your high horse. You think you're better then everyone because you had a positive opinion? It's one thing to disagree but come on, what you're saying about "real fans" amounts to name calling. "If you don't agree with me, you're obviously a moron."

Excuse me for watching a SERIALIZED television program and expecting the plot to come to some closure now that the end is here.

BSG is more then just the characters! Please get over your narrow view. BSG is about life, situations, love, loss, terrorism, peace, war, bigotry, individuality, society, religion, science, and so much more woven around and through the characters. Without the situations, we'd have a bunch of characters doing very boring things.

Now let's ask ourselves, other then being a bookend for the series what purpose do the flashbacks serve the situations currently in the series? Arguably, scenes from that far back do little to show character and does a lot more to establish "Caprica" in the minds of BSG viewers.

"Real Fans" may only care about characters, but us morons like how the characters respond to the situations and how they choose to solve them. I don't need to be spoon fed, but there is this big situation that has yet to be addressed and watching Apollo swat at a bird with a broom has done little to nothing to resolve it.

Νικόλαος said...

I loved the episode. And, er:

As some other people have mentioned, it should have been expanded into a whole episode and possibly trimmed down another episode so we can get more backstory on other characters.

This wasn't a "whole episode," either. It was just the first of three parts. It's highly likely that the flashbacks will continue next week (especially Adama's, which hasn't yet been explained).

Jarmel said...

Just because Scifi broke what was once a whole episode into multiple pieces doesn't make it an episode, it's just part of one arc.

I'm sure the flashbacks will continue however they obviously can't fit all the characters in there(and we still will not be getting backstory on all the characters) without sacrificing either action or answers. Looking back it seems certain arcs could have been replaced or trimmed down so we could have gotten a two parter full of flashbacks, that way we would have gotten alot more backstory. There were problems with this episode besides the flashbacks though.

Logan Gawain said...

I'm sorry @KZ, but you are an idiot, and your comments prove it. (Particularly your prior comment above, about how somehow the show is made with dollar signs in mind. Uh, if that were the case, then it would be the kind of dumbed down show you might be actually able to comprehend.)

The people begging for "answers" -- ginned up by a silly "you will know the truth" ad campaign-- are the people who will be most disappointed when they do get the answers they claim to desire so much.

There are a lot of answers in the final two hours. And you're the type of person who won't like them. You'll be among the first to complain about those answers. (Answers are never as satisfying as questions.)

The answers aren't the point. The point of the show is to comment on the human condition. They explore the human condition by exploring the lives of the characters, and how they came to be the people they are.

The Gaius and Six flashbacks were very important in that regard. We see how Caprica Six wormed her way into Gaius's life on her mission. And we saw how he fell in love with her, because of how she solved his dad's problem, with a great deal of understanding. That's a very important, key scene to their relationship.

We now get a sense of how and why Laura Roslin didn't get regular breast exams, because at that point in her life, after losing her family, she pretty much gave up caring. So, how she's found a new family, on Galactica, and found a purpose for her life, is very important to understand.

If you can't understand these subtleties go watch Stargate, or better yet, get the DVD's of the original BSG or perhaps the 1980s Buck Rodgers, something more along your level.

Battlestar Galactica, and Ron Moore in particular, is asking more of the audience. This is why the only shows I watch are shows that ask us to think, BSG, Lost, and Mad Men.

If you want a simplistic view of life, go watch 24, or something.

New Comment Policy: Cry Baby Whines, are subject to deletion. The show is not for children, and neither is Galactica Sitrep.

By all means, comment on the show, and debate the merits, but I'd like to see some intelligence in the point of views offered, and less of the petulant childlike tantrums.

Alec said...

Seriously, grow up. You're not 15. You're not living at home anymore. Life is about real people.

If this television show angers you because its focused on characters rather than exposition and action to the point that you have to bitch about it on the internet like a child, go watch something else.

You're an adult now. Not everything is made the way you like it. Deal with it.

Anthony said...

Personally I hope the ending is light on answers, because we're past that point now. We were past that point once they found earth aglow. I mean honestly. The big overt mystery of the show, for 4 and a half seasons was, "where is earth and how do we get there?" Well, mystery solved. Now we're at the point where we ask ourselves "what would I do" and "where do we go from here." I don't know. I guess it's more entertaining for me to say "what does it all mean and who are we" as opposed to "are you going to tell me what kara is or not, douchebag?"

One of the pitfalls of TV and storytelling in general is the need for answers. We watch cop dramas to find out who did it and why. The neat little resolution all packaged up and served in an hour. We watch medical dramas to see people get diagnosed and healed. We watch sitcoms to see people do stupid things and all the crazy shenanigans that ensue as a result. It's all very easy. Like my girlfriend watching reality shows cause after a long day she doesn't want to have to think. I don't mind those kinds of shows, but they're pretty shallow when you really think about it. Sure, characters can be cool and leave an impression, but when all is said and done, you can turn it off and not think about it again until it next airs.

It's the journey, not the destination. I'm cool with that. Although a guilty pleasure would be knowing what the virtual/head/beings are. :)

KZ said...

Logan, you're right, you are sorry. I find it ridiculous that you think name calling will somehow prove your point and counter anything I've said.

Instead of asking for clarification, you make an assumption and think you have the slightest idea what I'm talking about when in fact you don't and you instead just make yourself look like an ass.

The people with dollar signs in their eyes are the execs at the sci-fi channel, you're the idiot if you haven't realized that by splitting up seasons Sci-Fi has gotten all the benefits of having a critically acclaimed show every year at half the price. Ultimately they are the reason we wont be getting a longer send off for BSG and they are the reason you'll have to buy the DvD if you want to get any real clarity in these final episodes.

I'm sorry I thought Galactica Sitrep was more then just a cheerleader for the Sci-Fi Channel.

Yeah I'm pissed. I'm pissed we dont have more time for BSG because if we did maybe we would get a more calculated and measured send off for such a great show instead of the hurried and ultimately less fulfilling version we're currently getting without the DvD. (Even with the dvd I think the series could have benefited from a few more episodes.)

Go right ahead and delete my posts, it doesn't seem to me that you guys can handle honest opinions without knee jerk name calling, gross assumptions, and thinly veiled insults.

Go ahead and attack me some more while you're at it. I wont be coming back to read it.

Jonathan said...

Personally, I'm not expecting a sense of resolution until we see the resolution. No one will have complaints like these once they're seeing them on DVD.

The show got entirely too mythological, and this episode took a step back and reconnected with the characters and THEIR story. Is anyone else reminded of RDM's other series finale, "All Good Things"? That episode also partially took place before the events of the first episode.

Official Fake Sheep said...

Although I find the whining about "filler" episodes as annoying as anyone, I have to say I find the new comment policy even more distasteful.

As misguided as he is about the quality of the final ten episodes, I have to echo KZ's sentiment that I will not be coming back to sitrep given the new comment policy. I think the episodes have been fantastic, but I've always enjoyed reading dissenting views in the comments.

Have fun deleting my comment Stalin.

mccallross said...

In reference to what people are saying about Tyrol being in the Brig Bear mentioned in his blog that this was a plot point that got the chop from the previous episode so will probably be explained properly in the DVD cut scenes!

Adam Whitehead said...

Originally this was supposed to be a 2-hour episode that would have aired in one go, but they shot so much material for it that they turned it into a 3-parter and still had stuff left over (which will appear on the DVD). Whilst this is good on one level (we get an extra hour to resolve what needs resolving), it does screw over Part I as it now gets separated from the other two and is just left hanging out by itself with no real ending, not even a cliffhanger.

That said, some extraordinary stuff in there. CGI-wise, it really shows how much they been keeping back for the finale with the gorgeous shots of Caprica and Caprica City. I was wondering how they were going to keep the CGI team busy on CAPRICA without that many space scenes, but I guess we know now. And apparently this is nothing compared to what we see next week. Also, Bear McCreary's musical store was stunning. Looking forward to his blog post about that in the next few days.

The flashbacks were interesting from a character-building view, although the relevance of Lee chasing a pigeon around his house is escaping me for the moment. It does show how Laura has been able to handle everything that's been thrown at her on the show, though, as she'd lost so much before the Cylon attack that she was able to just absorb it and keep going. Mary McDonnell did fantastic work in this episode, most notably in the scene where she hobbles onto the hanger deck and makes her stand. 'Julius Baltar' was amusing. Seeing Adama choose to go after Hera was great, if totally expected.

Anders saying something interesting: "Slip the bonds of Earth...find a perfect world for the end of Kara Thrace." He's going to find a new world for Starbuck and, by extension, the rest of humanity?

One thing that is lame: are they really going with the explanation given in the mini-series novelization that Baltar was so embarrassed at forgetting Six's cover name he never asked her about it again in the following two years?

ProgGrrl said...


The big overt mystery of the show, for 4 and a half seasons was, "where is earth and how do we get there?" Well, mystery solved. Now we're at the point where we ask ourselves "what would I do" and "where do we go from here."

For me the biggest theme of BSG has always related to what Six says at the start: "Are you alive?" What does that mean? To what lengths will you go to stay alive? What differentiates the RTF from the Cylon Fleet? What is it about humanity that is worth saving?

Logan brings up a real big point as well: this season's ad campaign, "You Will Know The Truth" and "All Will Be Revealed"...those words set us all up to be disappointed. I suggest you all consider how you can resist that sort of manipulation, as a viewer...temper your feelings...

j said...

ProgGrrl, couldn't agree more (with both of your posts).

"Are you alive?" has got to be the absolute best opening line if any TV series ever. It packs as much punch as the famous "Call me Ishmael." line from Moby Dick.

I don't need to know the whole truth, because the truth is relative anyway. I don't need to have it all revealed, because I prefer questions to answers. Questions give rise to more questions and that's what makes things more interesting. And more challenging.

Unanswered questions give us the opportunity to answer the question "Are you alive?" with "Yes, I am, because I am asking questions about life and about myself. (Kara's "What am I? What AM I?")

That's why I love BSG so much. It keeps me asking questions.

glizda101 said...

Just brillant.
And I love it more and more while thinking about this epsiode.

I'm as furthest as possibile from calling names for people that didn't enjoy it and take away their right to be "real fans" and I really do respect their opinions but, still, I am not able to agree with them.

I just want to show my greatest approval to those who noticed that it's journey, not destination, questions, not answers. This is such an important and wise thing to say, I think. This is, and always has been, about characters, relationships between them, faith, betrayal, love, friendship, courage, cowardice and any other deeply human emotions you can think of. And the realizm of every single detail. That's why it's so relevant and important, altough being sci-fi. That's why they invited the show to UN discussion panel. That's why it stimulates such an adult and mature discussion throught the world, that no other TV show does. That's why it's called drama. And that's why it's not easy. It's not easy, because it's good. And those two things rarely go together, especially on TV.

Coming back to the point - apart from the scene with drunk Lee and the pigeon (would someone be so nice and explain it to me? no irony), I enjoyed every single moment of the episode. Flashbacks were gorgeous. Showing the characters years ago, before everything has even started, those scenes made us understand the way that everyone of them has walk, the impact that events had on them and the great changes within their lives. That's one point. Another one is, I think, to remain the viewers, that the show is about normal people, thrown inside the hard situations. Those situations forced them to act in different way, they had wished and to make difficult decisions, nevertheless they are still, and have always been, humans. Cooking for a boyfriend and his brother, throwing a party with sisters, having troubles with cranky old father. None of them was designed to be a hero, like none of us is. And it doesn't matter, if they are artifical machines or homo sapiens - above all they are deeply human. All of them.

And frak the answers. I don't need'em.

BTW I could use some Saul Tigh's background. As well as Helo's one.

Eric H said...

@ ProgGrrl and Logan: Hey, you know I love ya, but maybe go a little easier on the Answer People. I agree with just about everything you've both said about the show (and I love Logan's points about what we learned from the flashbacks), but I am also one of those people who can't help but be drawn into the intricate riddles the plot has been spinning out.

Yes, much of the Answer Angst has been driven by SciFi's marketing campaigns, etc. but to be fair, it's also embedded in the show. They've been weaving big fat teases to the big final answers (to Kara, to the Opera House, to the String Puller) right into the plot of recent episodes. Now, that just fine with me. Clearly this is the kind of mystery story where resolution happens only on the very final pages. And it's probably the kind of mystery story where the answers are more metaphysical, emotional, character-driven, etc. Also fine. I'll be perfectly happy with incomplete answers that leave us in wonder, because I think the resolution is going to be wonderful on the levels that really count.

But (at least for me) this kind of story is also an exquisite torture, and I do think it's a little harsh to dismiss everyone who expresses Answer Angst as, well, whiners and/or idiots.

Now, will somebody please sing Kum By Ya?

ProgGrrl said...

@Eric: Just the act of referring to the show as "a mystery" sets you up for disappointment. Not the right word to describe this show.

"Answer Angst"? ROFLMAO

zaphod said...

Agree with other posters on this clearly being act 1, don't judge until we've seen the next two acts.

Also, I've been thinking about the flashbacks and I don't think they were there exclusively to provide backstory on the characters; I think we saw a lot of foreshadowing of the characters' final moments. For example, Anders, using Galactica in place of his body, may get to finally make the perfect shot, the perfect block. Baltar may have to choose between caring for another and taking care of himself, and maybe this time he'll redeem himself with his choice (or maybe not).
The scene with Lee and the trapped bird *had* to be foreshadowing, because there's no way it was in there to tell us more about Lee's character... I also don't think it's coincidence that we saw (dead) Kara reunited with (dead) Zak. But, I could be wrong about all this.

coonyham said...

Watching BSG is like having too much wasabi - good/pain. Watching the flashbacks was so bittersweet. It reminded you of what each character enjoyed and lost.

Kara - nervous about meeting Zack's brother, cooking!!, joking around and her apt was clean! Lee - coming home drunk and laughing, but finding a bird trapped in his apt (symbolic of death? Or showing his good intentions to free the bird but breaking things all around him).... and he did lose Zack shortly afterward. Adama - what was this hour-long assignment? Laura - protective of her sister, laughing and joking and looking so healthy and beautiful, then faced with such heart-breaking loss. Caprica 6 - so clever to find a solution for Baltar who is so unlovable - such a player, he's literally drowning himself in women/pleasure because at heart, he is so miserable.

Then to return to the bleakness that is Galactica and see Laura so frail and fragile. What a powerful moment - it made me love these characters even more to see how they were and how they are.

I think Baltar will redeem himself, privately and end the show with Caprica 6. Kara is Adama's daughter, part of his family. We know "who" she is; what she is may be explained or may remain a tantalizing mystery.

I want answers... but I may not like them. I want to know about the Opera House & about the person who is directing this opera and more about Hera.

I want to say farewell to these special characters I view as friends and next week, I'll do so although, with a show as profound as BSG, I know I will be revisiting them again and again. And no - everything will not be tied up with a bow. Those kinds of answers are not satisfying. Leave us some mystery; our brains will help fill in some of the "what if's". :)

Greg Cotten said...

KZ - Seeing as how RDM just said the show is "all about the characters, stupid", I would think it's pretty safe to say you're pretty screwed if you think you're going to get the ending you want. Do you really want a flashin "THIS IS WHAT IS HAPPENING" in bright purple and red on a tacky neon sign? That's another show.

Lucas said...

The bird scene implied, at least to me, that Lee may have been the drunk driver who killed Roslin's family...

suicideblondjay said...

Wow such a divisive episode. Personally I think things are going according to RDM's plan. He said in a previous interview, If I remember correctly, they started thinking about how the show would end half way through the third season. That's a long time to think about it and it's obvious to me after watching Daybreak 1 what we have gotten is exactly what RDM wanted us to see. This is not Glen A. Larson's Battlestar Galactica, it's not even the BSG from the first two seasons, this is a completely different show now. It is a character piece as opposed to a drama set in space, it's theater, a Greek tragedy. Yeah I have my problems with the season so far but I have also accepted that this is BSG now, and you know what it's still my favorite show on tv. I was on the edge of my seat last night and I can't wait for part 2 and The Plan and yes even Caprica, because I can't let go, I love this world too much, in any incarnation.

I will reserve my comments on the episode until I've seen the whole thing...

Sam J. Miller said...

The scene of Roslin in the fountain, all that water pouring over her, cutting to a close-up of the IV as water drips into her one drop at a time, is the kind of brilliant writing+editing that makes me cry to realize that this show, and these amazingly talented people coming together, is at its end. there's so much happening there - the water as a symbol of life, this gushing unstoppable torrent reduced to a trickle - the water standing in for human civilization, from a vibrant society of billions when she's back on Caprica to the feeble dribble that is the fleet... that's why i watch galactica. because it can stand alongside anything Orson Welles or Leo Tolstoy ever put together in terms of how brilliantly it captures the complexity of human beings, at the same time as it transforms that sloppy mess into something aesthetic and profound...

I hear where folks are coming from, demanding answers, feeling like so much has been left in the air, and oh my gods, we only have two more hours, why the frak are we spending so much time watching starbuck cook dinner for dead zak and roslin clean up a baby shower... but here's the thing. Think about No Exit, or Deadlock. When we GET answers, we complain about that too. No Exit was amazing, it was great to finally have so much STUFF coming at us, to keep having to flip it back on the Tivo to hear more of Ellen's explanations, but didn't that episode feel slow and strangely lifeless, like the emotional core was missing? Because plot is only a small part of what makes a show great. The most brilliant plot in the world will be unwatchable if we don't enjoy spending time with the characters. Last night, when Roslin stepped onto the hangar bay, barely able to walk, her voice so weak, and the Roslin+Adama theme welled up in the background, THAT was worth more to me than all the exposition in the world. That brought a tear to my eye and made goose bumps break out all over me. I want next week's episode to do THAT, over and over again. I want to be broken down with sadness and joy as we watch these people reach a resolution. I want to scratch my head five days later saying "wait - what about [the Cylon God/Kara's brand-new viper/the opera house/Daniel/how the twelve tribes created a cylon thirteenth tribe/who is orchestrating all of this/etc]?" because it didnt get answered BUT I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE because Starbuck and Apollo and Roslin and Tigh and Ellen and the Chief and the Old Man and Caprica Six and Head Six and Cavil and Boomer and Athena and Helo and Anders and Hoshi and Tory and Baltar and even stupid Hot Dog were all too busy getting to a place where we can leave them behind with a glad heart.

Sam J. Miller said...

Incidentally, does anyone know what was going on in the Bill Adama flashback on Caprica? Was that when he learned about Galactica's de-commissioning? Was he getting fired? What was the "just one hour" that his supervisor (?) mentioned?

ProgGrrl said...

@Sam: I assumed he was referring to doing the decommissioning ceremony on the Galactica before retiring? Or perhaps we have not seen the last of the flashbacks...

RudyHuXXXtable said...


No, you're right, it's about "Are you alive" but for me it goes a bit deeper than that. Being alive means only so much. LIVING is what's important, yea? As opposed to just being alive. 'Cause I know quite a few people who are just living hehe. My reference to earth is basically my way of agreeing to you, but saying it goes further. So in a roundabout way I was kind of saying the same thing you were, but you're the blogger so you did it better.

Jeremy Bradshaw said...

For those griping about this show being too slow "right before the finale"... it is the finale. It is ACT 1 or 3. Blame the network for breaking it up for us. You can judge it until you see the whole. The first 45 minutes of any movie rarely stands alone.

Brett Copeland said...

@Sam J Miller

I agree with you. When I first got into this show it was well after season 2 had started. I've always thought that this show is pretty frustrating to watch one episode at a time. When you marathon this stuff on DVD all the complexities and story lines begin to emerge more readily than the start stop of each week's episode.

To be honest, it's hard for me to pick out any favorite episode because episodes don't really stand out in my mind, it's the story lines behind them that do. For example in the first season I enjoyed the story leading up to and culminating in the standoff on Colonial One. In Season 2 it was all the political moves setting up for Roslin losing the election and the settling on New Caprica. in Season 3 it was the mystery of the Final Five unraveling.

This is the first season where I've been able to watch it every week. I honestly can't tell you what I like the most so far. I'm going to need to watch it in its full narrative form to understand what exactly I like best. It's kind of like picking up a book, reading a little bit and then putting it back down for a week. You kind of lose the momentum and can't see the patterns or nuances if you keep putting it down.

But, like a great book, I too want all the answers and am nervously looking at the number of pages left worried, scared and sad that this is almost over. I'm enjoying it way too much.

I do know that it's going to take every remaining chapter to wrap up this story, and I'm positive we've got one great chapter left.

Adam Whitehead said...

Seeing the reactions to this episode made me go back to the mini-series again. BSG isn't LOST, it's not built around a core set of mysteries that 'need' to be revealed over the course of the series. It's always been much more about the forward-moving storyline and its expositionary history episodes have always felt a bit awkward (like 'No Exit', or sometimes even totally nonsensical, like 'Hero') because it's not really what the show is about.

Going back to the mini, what mystery is there that needs to be solved? The only thing that comes to mind is an explanation for 'Head-Six', which we have been promised (and by process of elimination has to come next week: I refuse to believe they'd hold that back for 'The Plan'). For RDM to focus the finale on the end of the character arcs for Lee, Roslin, Starbuck, Adama, Baltar, Tigh, Tyrol, Helo, Boomer etc and everyone else introduced in the mini therefore makes sense, especially if in doing so resolves the Hera/Opera House storyline and brings an end to the human-Cylon conflict with it. I also imagine we'll be shown the end of the Fleet's search for a new home, since just leaving them in space would be a bit dissatisfying (although that could work as a comment that the journey is more important than the destination).

Brisotope said...

I came to this site originally because it was small, uncrowded, very well maintained, and most importantly it was friendly. It really has ceased to be that. It feels like you can't be critical of the show without being told to "Grow up" or that you're an "idiot".

Thanks for the good times, you do great work here Logan and ProgGrrl! But it's not my kind of place anymore.

General Boy said...

Wow! Lot's of emotions here.

I'm concerned that our moderators are not acting as moderators here but, instead, may be acting as judges and censors. Omniscient statements like, "that's not the right word to describe the show" are unfair, biased, and condescending. No-one has the corner on the right interpretation of the show. I don't care for the name calling, either. It seems out of bounds to me, especially when one has the advantage of deleting another's posts. The moderators should set the tone of the thread. We should show tolerance for other points of view here, as long as they are posted in a civil manner. Let me add, too, that vented frustration should be tolerated, too. This has been a long trip, and we are all emotionally invested in the show. These are only suggestions.

Ok. The SHOW.

Me? You know how I feel. I loved this episode. Excuse my lack of citations here, but the 2001/2010 analogy is perfect. Statements like, "You're overthinking this! It's only a movie!" that people have said to me over the years have always irritated me. Film is an art medium, and so is serialized television. If a show is *really* good, it will be received with strong reactions - just as we're seeing here on this thread. Historically, great art is always met with mixed, strong reactions and confusion. It challenges our notions about art, our belief systems, humanity, and our existence. We all know that. I think we are seeing that here. Put simply, this show is very much open to interpretation. That is what makes it so great. My bet is that we will be left with many questions in the end. We will be left wanting more.

I agree: I suspect that those of you that want an answer to every question on your list will be deeply disappointed in the end. The show is clearly not going that direction. The end will probably be open to much speculation. There will be much MYSTERY to it, just like all great films. We will be left with questions to ponder. I'm personally hoping for an end that challenges me to like it. I may be befuddled and even be disappointed at first. Then, after some reflection, I may come to love it. I want to be blown away - challenged, confused, and forced to come to terms with it.

Don't get me wrong. RDM et al could really screw things up in the end, which explains much of the emotional stress you see vented here on this thread. Even from me! Others have said it here: They have adopted a Zen philosophy. They enjoy each moment in that moment. This is perhaps the best way to enjoy the series.

I so loved the backstory on Caprica. As I said before, the collection of those scenes serve as a very nice bookend, and they're presence in this episode align with the cyclical motif of the show. In the end, we have been taken back to the beginning. Fleshing out the characters even more was immensely satisfying. In fact, I'm surprised how much I enjoyed it, given that we are in the 11th hour.

I'm glad to learn that Baltar's soliloquy in the brig about changing his accent wasn't BS after all. I know I'm in the minority here, but I think Baltar is redeemable. I've said this before, and, again, you may call me a sucker. I think he does believe in his god, and I do think there is genuine good in him. He's complicated, though, and that is what makes his character so interesting.

I liked the use of the red tape, too. The color red has some significance in the show - cylon culture, etcetera. The interesting thing too is that the act of drawing that line down the deck called back to that ancient colonial ritual of "Pouring Sand on the Floor and Drawing a Line in It" that we saw in a previous episode. It is happening again, isn't it?

I miss Anders. I hope he snaps out of it. I would like to see some closure with him, Kara, and the FF.

Athena has really gone off the deep end. I mean, she has completely lost it. It's understandable, but she is completely incapacitated. I wonder if there is some significance to this in the larger story and her relationship with Hera in the end.

I will admit, I got a little nervous when I heard the word "singularity". I've said before that I am worried the show will have a deus ex machina end to it, and nothing says deus ex machina like "singularity". I'll hold off any judgment at this time, though. Do you think they'll all go through the black hole, black out, and then all wake up in bed with Suzanne Pleshette?

Last point: Lee couldn't have been the drunk driver. The drunk driver was in custody.

OK. Time to watch the episode again. I'll leave you with a link to brighten the day of any BSG fan.

GB out.

ryan said...

@Jonathan -- incredibly good point, that Moore also wrote the finale to ST:TNG, which I remember loving. I've harbored a dark and secret thought for a while now that BSG is better television than Star Trek was (I grew up with TOS, TNG &c), and I guess we'll see whether the center holds in Daybreak Pt. 2.

I wasn't thrilled about the flashbacks the first time around (thought Roslin's family's death was gratuitous and over the top, but if it turns out it was Lee who did it, man that's just great storytelling), but having watched it a second time, I get what we're being set up for, and why it works.

The Caprica Six / Baltar storyline is even more charged now. It's unclear whether she was helping him with his father and being so kind to him just in order to get access to the defense mainframe, or because she's falling in love with him, slowly, or what.

But naturally he betrays her again by staying with his weirdo cult on the fleet instead of siding with her on Galactica for this suicide(?) mission.

It just doesn't seem like 2 hours is going to be enough time to wrap everything up, to make these flashbacks pay off, and to resolve this cosmic plot. But wow, if they do, it's going to be incredible.

@General Boy: Lee could be the drunk driver. Each character's flashbacks occur in a different time-frame. Fully possible that Lee is in jail at a certain point.

General Boy said...


He came home, drunk and laughing, right? It didn't seem like he just drove away from a major car crash. I will the show again with your point in mind, though. Thanks, GB

ryan said...

Sorry to post twice on this but another thing to consider: the Roslin flashback especially must have been _years_ before the beginning of the miniseries.

When she's on the phone eating sushi, she says she's not joining Adar's presidential campaign, so this is at least a few months, if not a year before he's president. Then you assume there's at least a year or so of his presidency before the attack on the 12 colonies (remember that whole storyline about the teachers strike and so on?). And the phone call takes place two months after Roslin's family incident. So, really, we're looking at something that happened six or ten years before Daybreak.

But now I'm starting to doubt the Lee as the drunk driver theory -- how could Roslin have not recognized him when she meets him in the miniseries?

Theorist said...

Lee Adama's pigeon and Laura Roslin's fountain were included in the opening montage of the galaxy and Caprica/Earth. So they are important images and are clearly paired.

I suspect that the scene with the pigeon and Lee drunk takes place after he learns of Zak's death, just as the fountain takes place after Laura learns of her family's death. (Remember that Lee comes in mumbling something like "I dare you, I double-dare you" - brother talk.)

The pigeon, then, is Zack's soul seen through Lee's eyes, while Laura bathing in the fountain shows us a very different response to a similar event.

ProgGrrl said...

@General Boy:

Omniscient statements like, "that's not the right word to describe the show" are unfair, biased, and condescending. No-one has the corner on the right interpretation of the show. you're saying Logan and I cannot share our personal opinions like the rest of you? On our own blog? ::head scratching::

@Brisotope: know our site is mainly a news aggregator, right? ::more head scratching:: Well. Bye then.

Look fandom, we're all pretty verklempt and touchy this month...the show is ending, fandom nerves are frayed, folks may say things they don't really mean. Especially in this easy, anonymous venue of blog comments.

Let's all try to pretend something: we are in a room together. It's Logan's living room. ProgGrrl has installed a swanky HD TV for us to watch the eps, and has brought all the refreshments. You guys are guests would you converse with each other if this was a non-virtual room?

ryan said...

@Theorist -- that seems like a pretty good explanation. And it makes sense especially because the scene opens on the model of the viper on Lee's coffee table (he's got an awesome apartment, by the way). But I don't buy that he's just learned about Zak's death. He's laughing at first! Maybe he and Zak just did some stunt, which will eventually lead to his death (pointing to your good catch about the "brother talk.")

I agree with you that his and Roslin's scenes must be linked, I just don't know how yet.

Ken Arneson said...

Fascinating. The fans here are splitting into factions over season 4.5, just like the characters are. Back when there was a single mission, Find Earth, everyone marched more or less in step with the leaders' vision.

But what happens when that mission, The Plot, disappears? Suddenly, everyone must ask and answer for themselves, "What's the point of all this?"

And you see it in this very thread. Some of us answer, "This is all pointless", and give up, like Duala. Some of us get angry at our leaders, and want to mutiny, like Gaeta and Zarek. Some of us find something else to believe in ("it's about characters!") like Baltar and his followers. And some of us don't ask or answer the question, we just keep going, like a good loyal soldiers in the background--Hoshi and Hot Dog.

Ron Moore must be very proud of us all. We get it!

glizda101 said...

@ Ken Arenson

*Love* your observation. That is just brilliant. Man, I am probably overtinking it, but this is such a complex explanation with the great connection to the show.
Ron is proud of us. And I'm proud of You. :D It has changed my way of perception of this whole disscusion. Now I always be seeing this fans-characters dependence. It's awesome. :D

Funny to observe, that I seem to be Baltar-like.

radii said...

@ Ken Arneson

The most insightful observation I've read related to the show in a long long time

Νικόλαος said...

Re: the Lee pigeon stuff. Since the flashback was set into the context of his conversation with Baltar, I saw that scene as perfectly reflecting Lee's arc throughout the entire series. He's always trying to get a pigeon out of his house: sometimes it's Starbuck, but more often than not it's his conscience. In the scene with Baltar, he basically did the "smart thing" (Baltar is still untrustworthy) but not the "right thing" (thousands of people shouldn't be disenfranchised because they are part of a certain religious movement). I think the look on Lee's face as Baltar left the room showed that he knew that. Again, he was trying to get the pigeon out of his house, but not really succeeding. And this has been going on ever since "33". If you read his arc this way, it makes a lot of sense.

Also, Ken, that is totally brilliant.

Justin Van Alstyne said...

What is this "the characters are what really matters" monolith? It's somehow become the sacred cow of our little BSG crowd, as if wandering episodes and bad plot structure can be saved simply by pointing out that BSG is a sci-fi show that focuses on "characters" and is thus an artistic and unique snowflake, worthy of commendation.

Well people, I hate to break it to you, but the only reason the characters are becoming so important is because the plot has moved at a snail's pace for the last three weeks. Thus, we get innundated with flashbacks and mushy blah blah while the writers fail to flesh out why important events in the show are transpiring.

--Character exposition is the frakking ICING while the plot/storyline is the CAKE--

This is what happens to good shows when the writers get soft and start worrying about how many "cool" devices they can use in a piece without regard to whether the context in which that neat trick is being used has any bearing on anything even remotely worth watching.

We've been to Earth, had our dreams shattered and what have we learned? That the writers were struggling to tie up all the loose ends in one season and really couldn't think of a way to make the final five story make sense in any meaningful conception of the word?

So, what are writers to do? Well, in this case, they pulled a gnostic interpretation of Cavil's plan (evil overlord takes over domain of true gods, shields memory of said event from everyone, traps gods in human form) out of their collective asss and left it at that unsatisfying abomination of a plot twist without even explaining how it happened fully. And we're supposed to think everything is great because this season they're focusing on "the characters"? Please, thats just an excuse for running out of places for the story to go.

And let me be clear, character studies aren't necessarily a bad thing (c.f. Season 1), but they certainly become so when they become the focus of the show. Plot is what makes people care about the characters, not the characters by themselves. We want to see what these characters do in meaningful, personal drama not the hurried excuse for BSG we've seen this season.

Its as if they're rushing through the plot to get to some flashback that provides us with an obscure metaphor for a character. If that's greatness, then my 11th grade creative writing piece should be enshrined in the frakking Library of Congress.

Eric H said...

@ ProgGrrl: I'm not thinking "mystery" in the sense of detective story, but rather the big, central unexplained phenomena RDM has actually promised to explain, the stuff that is in fact central to the characters' understanding of their own stories -- the Opera house, head characters, and Starbucks's reincarnation come to mind. Honestly, that's all I really care about and I think that's what most panicky "Answer Angst" fans were reacting to last night. I crave these particular answers because I want the characters I love to understand what's going on. And I was expecting some things to start falling into place last night and they didn't, yet. But I do think they will. (Note to self: stop believing SciFi's promotions about ANYTHING).

General Boy's comments about "mystery" describe what I meant in my use of the word,only much better. This being BSG, I don't think the characters are going to get *complete* explanations for anything, nor perhaps should they. I would be bored stiff if next week's finale is only about tidying up plot points, and I will be absolutely fine if details are left up to the imagination (and if some questions aren't answered at all), as long as what we get is a satisfying and thought provoking end to the story.

walker said...

I think the criticism above of this episode is harsh. It is CLEARLY CLEARLY CLEARLY the first part of a three hour finale - it wasn't meant to be cut that way. There was no classic plot devlopment like your typical episode building up to a climax and resolution. If you view it this way, it was fantastic. I have been aching for some character development rather than more guns a blazin' stuff and I got it. I've found previous episodes a bit thin on the characters personality front and am pleased with this one. What is Adamas one hour 'mission'? I can't wait for the final. I think it is fairly obvious what is going to happen on the guns a blazin' front, but I want closure on the characters and the history and future of cylon eveolution so I'm looking forward to it.

Adam Whitehead said...

I thought there was something odd about the end of the episode, so on a rewatch I paid closer attention. The first time through I only heard the phrase 'black hole' but the second time I also heard Starbuck call the phenomenon a 'naked singularity', which instantly worried me.

The previous major use of a naked singularity in SF was in Peter F. Hamilton's excellent Night's Dawn Trilogy of novels. The AI-controlled singularity in that was pretty much capable of doing, erm, anything. At one point it opens giant wormholes and uses them to construct a solar system out of habitable planets, ending up with more than a dozen terrastial planets orbiting a single star in a manner that would never happen naturally. Sound familiar?

A naked singularity used in that fashion could quite conceivably teleport dead chicks' Vipers around, rebuild them (and the pilot), teleport them halfway back across the Galaxy, provide an virtual reality-like Opera House that people can visit from anywhere in the Galaxy and more.

I'm pretty certain that the singularity is there solely to compact the Colony and everyone on it down to the size of a small pea when/if Galactica knocks it out of orbit next week, and using the singularity to explain everything would be massive ST:TNG-style use of technobabble to resolve the plot that would go against everything RDM has done on the show to date, but nevertheless the use of the phrase did make me concerned based on the precedent.

General Boy said...

@ Adam Whitehead:

I'm in total agreement with you. This unexpected appearance of technobabble worries me. As I said above:

"I will admit, I got a little nervous when I heard the word "singularity". I've said before that I am worried the show will have a deus ex machina end to it, and nothing says deus ex machina like "singularity". I'll hold off any judgment at this time, though. Do you think they'll all go through the black hole, black out, and then all wake up in bed with Suzanne Pleshette?"

I wasn't aware of the "naked singularity" allusion, though. Thanks for the information. I'm holding off on judgment. One of the great things about this show, though, is that it isn't so technocratic.

KinDallas said...

Umm...I didn't see this posted yet so I'm sorry if this is a duplicate.

Did anyone catch Baltar dropping the REAL F-bomb in the scene with his father? I rewound it was definitely not frak. Wondering if it was a gag, a mistake the editors missed, or if they wanted to see if they could slip it by censors so used to hearing Frak?


walker said...

Is it just me or has this episode got some serious 'Father Ted' action going on?? British viewers may know what I'm on about?

Sunil Sharma said...


Yeah, I thought I heard the real F-bomb too the first time I saw the epi (and thought maybe by this point the censors were no longer really paying attention), but after just playing that line over and over a few times on my computer with the volume turned up, I'm hearing the R in Frak. The R is faint, though, and Callis' accent on the A-sound is more like an UH-sound, so I can see why it's easy to hear the word as the real thing.

John said...

Just for the record...

There was a nice small touch with the overhead shot leading into
the limo scene with Baltar and Caprica Six.

It was an interesting detail.

In a straight line off to the the limo was
driving white bright red car..and
another white car.
With of course Baltar's much larger black car moving
past the other line of (parked?) cars.

There are some possible symbolic connections here that can be drawn
between the Caprica Six character..and the Head Six character.
(...and maybe even Baltar too...since he is so directly intertwined with
those two Six characters.)

It was such a small tiny detail...onscreen for just a second..but
since it was shown on purpose...and it was made to be somewhat
obvious...I'd have to imagine that those three (parked?) cars
must have been placed there for a specific reason by an
unknown specific person.
This kind of stuff doesn't just happen by accident.

John said...

We all know how much Cavil seemed to enjoy the "swirl" move
from Ellen Tigh back on New caprica.

...and now the Colony has been positioned next to some
sort of a black hole.

Isn't a black hole sometimes visually represented with
the image of some sort of a..."swirl"?

Hmmmmm??....Cavil...Ellen....and a few different takes on.."swirls".

(...I won't dare to mention anything about any..."holes".)

ctm said...

To people complaining about plot: this show has never had a complicated plot, and there hasn't been all that much mystery about it.

Humanity gets blown up by robots. Some people escape, run from the robots. They are told they're going to a planet called Earth -- but the audience is told that no one important even believes in Earth. Some weird mystical shit happens -- visions in the Opera House, Kara Thrace, etc -- that makes people believe that Earth might be out there. We find Earth and it sucks, so we leave. Now what's left? Finding somewhere that doesn't suck to leave, saving the kid, and killing the bad guys. The only mysteries that need explaining at this point all have to do (if I'm not mistaken) with the questions of: is there one God, a bunch of Gods, or no Gods; and regardless, who is pulling the strings (re: Starbuck, the Opera House, etc).

That's it. There's your mystery, your precious plot development. Over exactly how many episodes should all of the plot exposition take place? Should they have found Earth in one episode, jumped to it in another one, debated whether or not to go to the surface in a third and then finally in fourth discover it's nuked? What about Starbuck? Should they have sent her back from the Maelstrom with full memories of what happened, to let the audience know all the secrets?

How many episodes of this show have you watched? How many of those episodes centered on the characters, and how many centered on intrigue? And how much would you care about the intrigue if the characters didn't matter?

If you believe that the plot is the cake and the characters are the icing, then you would do well do buy yourself the complete DVDs of Lost and watch it closely. Lost is a perfect example of what happens to a story when you emphasize plot over characters -- Heroes is another good example. Those shows do keep people gripped from week to week, but they don't make people cry. They don't make people fret over what the hell they're going to do when the show is over, and the certainly do not get the creators of the show invited to speak at the frakking United Nations.

Battlestar Galactica is, and has always been, about the characters. Think of the first episode, 33. The very first episode of the show makes it crystal clear that this ride is about what happens to a bunch of imperfect humans who need sleep and caffeine and sex and hope when they are forced to live on the run, searching for a home they know probably doesn't exist. If the show was about the plot, and not the characters, do you really think Earth would have been a nuclear wasteland? Come on!

I know that none of this will convince anybody, so I will pose what I consider to be the most interesting plot question at this point: did Cavil et al know where the fleet was the whole time? I'm starting to think they did -- first, look at 33. Then, look at the fact that the Boomer knew just where to find the fleet, and how to get back. It seems all too clear to me right now that for the duration of this entire series we - the audience, as well as the members of the Fleet -- have been tricked by Cavil into thinking we were on the run. For what reason? I don't know. I imagine it's all part of the plan.

radii said...

re: plot vs. characters

First, these are not in opposition - each serves the other. This is the proverbial chicken-and-egg conundrum ... but in the case of drama we know that the chicken is the plot and the characters are the eggs ... the chicken makes eggs ... the eggs cannot exist without the chicken, i.e. the characters cannot exist without the plot ... I suppose you can just do page after page of describing characters, but that's not a story

or put another way:

imagine yourself a playwright and you've composed a 3-Act drama for an audience

... without the structure of a story upon which to hang your characters and conflicts and create propulsion forward to ultimate resolution the characters are hollow - they project and manifest from where?

In any story the audience is introduced to the protagonist and other characters along the way but our protagonist's motivating desire is the foundation for the plot - which sets up conflict and creates drama

The best test is to describe a story to someone else: you can go on and on about the characters - what they are like, what they did, what they wanted ... but unless you describe the plot the person you're describing the story to has no idea what it's about

k said...

Here is what wikipedia has to say about naked singularities in fiction (BSG is already there, of course):

* A naked singularity almost appears in the six episode OAV series Diebuster. In the final episode, a black hole's event horizon is somehow breached when struck by a powerful force. It is stated that this "crack" would eventually lead to the singularity inside being exposed to the universe. In the same scene, one character speculates that the Big Bang was the aftermath of such an event.

* A Naked Singularity plays a key part in Peter Hamilton's Night's Dawn trilogy, in particular in the Third book, "The Naked God". In this case, it is an observable, light-emitting 'structure' built by an intelligent race.

* In Ring by Stephen Baxter, the Big Dumb Object in the title is a rapidly rotating galaxy-sized object whose center acts as a gateway to other universes.

* In Marco's Millions, a naked singularity threatens to destroy Earth's universe.

* In Eon by Greg Bear, the flaw is a man-made singularity inside the seventh (and last) chamber of a big asteroid known as Thistledown, stretching the seventh chamber into infinity with the flaw in the center. This infinite corridor is known as The Way from which it is possible to open gates to other universes.

* In the two-part Battlestar Galactica series finale, "Daybreak", the Cylon Colony is located in orbit around a naked singularity.

LFP said...

Punny -- The entire series was just a pun on the deus ex machina literary convention. Self-cornered? Gordian knot of a plot? "God from the machine" indeed. Punny. Nothing more.

cw said...

I know that there are people who say that you have to truly have a keen intellect to enjoy the compexities of this show, and to that i say....HEY i am didn't sign up for film school!!!!!!!!!! I want to be entertained!!!! This wasn't entertaining, it was a sad example to me of how a show can go from amazing and eye catching to lame and too drawn out. I mean hey its great to develope that characters, but i don't need to know how they feel while they are taking a dump!

Day break pt 2 was almost so predicatable, I really think that they could have shortened all of season 4 and left out all the extra crud and perhaps they would have made it more Tolerable.

Bad ending to a potentially great show.

传斌 said...

replica Watches
replica Watches
replica Watches
fake Watches
knockoff Watches
replica Rolex Watches
replica Breitling Watches
replica Cartier Watches
replica Omega Watches
replica Tag Heuer Watches
replica Bell & Ross Watches
replica Panerai Watches
replica IWC Watches
replica Patek Philippe Watches
replica Chopard Watches
replica Gucci Watches
replica Corum Watches
replica Montblanc Watches
replica Jacob & Co Watches
replica A.Dunhill Watches
replica A.Lange & Sohne Watches
replica Alain Silberstein Watches
replica Audemars Piguet Watches
replica B.R.M Watches
replica Baume & Mercier Watches
replica Blancpain Watches
replica BMW Watches
replica Breguet Watches
replica Burberry Watches
replica Bvlgari Watches
replica Chronoswiss Watches
replica Concord Watches
replica D&G Watches
replica De Witt Watches
replica Dior Watches