Friday, January 30, 2009

Open Thread: #415 The Oath

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Writer: Mark Verheiden
Director: John Dahl


The What said...

I wish I was in Portland, OR right now. Drinking.

The One True b!X said...

Yes, if you're in The Portland of Oregon, don't forget that Mark Verheiden will be at tonight's BSG showing at the Bagdad.

Anonymous said...


I'm at work and have to wait ...

I need a drink

Anonymous said...

THAT is the Laura Roslin I fell in love with.

Jarmel said...

I hope the Skiffy previews are wrong otherwise they just gave out a major major important detail. So spoiler virgins avoid the preview like the plague.

Brisotope said...

Racetrack and Seelix are turncoats? There's enough room in the airlock for them with Gaeta and Zarek. Wow, what an episode. My chest is sore from the constant tension! And the ending, Jesus. I thought I was gonna need a change of underwear but luckily I don't. Wait...yes I do.

Eric H said...

All kinds of awesomeness, fantastic episode. Favorite moment among many great ones: Starbuck being all "I've already died once, bitches, and I am gonna waste your sorry asses."

Quibblet: Lee can't seem to grasp that a 2,000+ year old cylon who's been unceasingly loyal to his father just might be, you know, different from the genocidal recent models?

Grant Gould said...

Amazing amazing amazing episode. Loved it... Depressed as hell that I have to wait SEVEN FRAKKIN' DAYS to see what happens next!! O.O

Anonymous said...

From now on, the TV off as soon as I see RDM's name at the end of the episode. I will not have Skiffy ruin surprises for me as it seems they did with this week's coming attractions. Frakkers!

Nathan said...

Loved that episode!! As for the spoilers you heard for the next week's episode...let's just say I'll believe it when I see it. Maybe all is not what it seems!

No inside information here, of course, just a gut instinct.

Elrond L said...

No kidding, I cannot wait SEVEN MORE DAYS! Jesus, that was one frakking incredible ride. I was shaking during the commercial breaks, and the whole neighborhood heard my daughter and I scream at the end. (My wife missed the fun, I think she's kinda relieved). :-)

Just amazing. Bill's stare at Gaeta scared US. And Laura is BACK!!

genna said...

My entire dorm probably heard me screaming throughout this episode and now hates me. I still have not recovered. Oddly, how hilarious was Tigh this episode? First his reaction to Laura Roslin in the Admiral's room and second when he realized he was, in fact, holding a gun in each hand.
Kara Motherfrakkin' Thrace ought to be the subject of jokes dedicated to Chuck Norris; Lee finally found the pair he grew in "Revelations"; they should team up and shoot people more often, apparently.
Tangentially related, but what are the chances that Ellen never died when Tigh tried to kill her? Maybe the Five are just harder to kill and she got picked up by some Cylons. & I hope Tory's character gets explored more in upcoming episodes: I don't understand why her finding out she's a Cylon made her such a heinous bitch. && Gaeta's been planning this way longer than his the little revelation he got in the webisodes; who was signing those death warrants?

andy said...

"To Be Continued"

Gods Dammit.

Seelix, not you too.

Weird BE said...

This is why I envy people who watch this show on DVD. Good Lords...there's no way I'm going to be able to wait seven days between EVERY FRAKKING EPISODE. I actually kind of wish it had been a slow episode; I wouldn't be angry I have to wait. I pray for a coma!

And yeah, don't watch the previews. I just couldn't help it. But I think it's misdirection. Not a lie, but misdirection. Hopefully from here on out SciFi only includes scenes from Act One in the previews. Although since they gave away the very last frame of this episode in last week's previews, maybe that's a fool's hope.

suicideblondjay said...

aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh two parter, i want a resolution to this episode NOW! this is the best run of episodes since season one. when did this show get so funny, i wonder if this is ron moore's way of introducing some levity to a show that keeps getting darker every week. the stuff with Baltar was hilarious and the look on lee and kara's face when adama and roslin started making out was priceless. that was some serious PDA, i laughed out loud! i never laugh out loud when i watch this show. damn it better win an emmy this year...

Mike DeWolfe said...

I posted my take on next week's episode (based on this week's episode and some speculation):

This tension is killing me. Argh: 6 days, 21.5 hrs. to go...

I really did like Tigh and Adama teaming up as they did.

Anonymous said...

I've got to go back to Pegasus to find an episode I enjoyed this much. A really nice touch was bringing back so many of the bit players like Ty Olsson and the guy who set off the CIC riot - he was in Exodus II, for instance, and never got a chance for a speaking part. Very glad Tivo has the 30 second skip for the spoilers!

Anonymous said...

Ok Sci-Fi are still the biggest idiots when it comes to teasers.......

Awesome episode tonight. I only have one thing to say....

OMG they killed Jaffy!!! You Bastards!!!

P.S hooray for the return of a very scary looking Kelly.

Anonymous said...

What scene was Kelly in? I thought maybe the end but I think I missed something . . .

Ryan said...

That was amazing! I'm glad Kevin Smith didn't direct that episode as Ron Moore originally asked him to. He would have totally ruined it.

Sam J. Miller said...

last week, the rollercoaster was climbing up very slowly, making us nervous because we know the big drop was coming, and here it is, aaaaagggggghhhhh, frak, i was so anxious throughout the episode... i can't process...except to say how frakking exciting it is to see the Old Man with a machine gun in his hands.

Logan Gawain said...

Absolutely Sam, that was awesome.

Wait till you see what happens next week as the pot continues to boil over.

ProgGrrl said...

Wow. That was a great ep...John Dahl, you sure brung it. And what a thrill to get some old kickin-ass-and-taking-names Starbuck back on this show. Here she comes, saving Lee's ass again, that's always fun to watch. Her military ethics RE shooting at that mutinous marine, and how that chafed Adama, was interesting. Alessandro Juliana was just fantastic here. They are really giving Gaeta a lot to do this season, and AJ is stepping up.

What an ending...booyah! Is it gonna be like this every week now?

General Boy said...

It is going to be a long week. I am completely satisfied with this episode. Strangely, when I first started watching this show (and by fate, I started watching it right at the airing of the miniseries and was hooked from there) I wanted Baltar to face justice. He was loathesome, and I wanted him to answer for what he did. Now, he is my favorite character, and his past transgressions don't seem to matter much to me anymore, especially since he gave his heartfelt admission on the baseship.

Now, along with the cylon civil-war, we now have a human civil-war. Some strange lines will be drawn, no? I'm eager to see the aftermath. I began to wonder, "What if they nuke Galactica into oblivion with all of those traitors? Can you have a Battlestar Galactica without a Battlestar Galactica?" No spoiler, I just couldn't help but wonder.

Favorite moments:

1. Starbuck kills Jaffy (that's his name, right?") without a moments hesitation. She knows what's at stake.

2. Starbuck and Apollo are back together, kicking ass and taking names. That was a good feeling, wasn't it. It's been a long time.

3. Lee lays into Saul. He's not so idealistic as people say. He's not naive or confused, either. He understands the frustration of the rebels. He shuts down Sauls refutations with, "You put them there", meaning the cylons. Whether it's fair or not, it was a visceral, powerful moment. It was the "being holed up in space with the remaining members of your species near extinction" talking through him. Again, the stakes are high.

4. Adama has still got it. He scares the shit out of those marines, and he knows it. Hell, he scared the shit out of me when he delivered his speech on the CIC. And what about the marine escort? They were just kids. They were no match for Bill and Saul. Poor things.

Gaeta is in way over his head, and he doesn't even realize it. Zarek? Well, he's an old dog who's done this all in the past, but this isn't a game anymore. He's right: There will be real consequences.

I am excited to know that I have no idea where the show is headed (save those damn SciFi teasers/spoilers. I won't discuss the preview here.

Patrick said...

Just a guess: since I can't imagine Admiral Adama accepting a blindfold before his execution, I'm betting he's been blinded by the grenade explosion, and the "blindfold" we see is really a dressing/bandage.

Also, I can totally understand Gaeta's POV. Of course, he's going to lose; Gaeta always loses. But I get where he's coming from.

Anonymous said...

This is quite possibly the most intense episode of Battlestar EVER. This is what all action movies should strive to be. Insane action, yet every act had weight and heart behind it. There were no frivolous explosions thrown in just because explody things are cool. Every gun shot hurt. Everyone that died, whether rebel or hero, lowered humanity's chances of surviving. There are no red shirts, here; every death is worse than the one before it.

I have one burning question after watching this episode: will any of these people be able to forgive? Will there ever be a point at which so much blood has been spilled that everyone puts down their guns? My guess: no. Never. Not in this show, not in this life.

Some people might forgive. Those people will be the heroes. But what do you do when the person you forgive points a gun at your head and pulls the trigger?

Anonymous said...

Patrick: thanks for the spoiler, asshole.

Site mods: please delete the above comment regarding the 'blindfold'.

andy said...

they're showing up to date eps in austraila as of today. in fact they had a marathon of all the season 4 episodes so far which was awesome, i haven't moved off the sofa. but i have to say that was A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!

can't wait until next week, aaaargh!

radii said...

amazing how people can take away such different perceptions of the same event ... I loved Sometimes A Great Notion ... was kinda meh over A Disquiet Follows My Soul and was completely underwhelmed by The Oath - which clearly runs counter to the enthusiasm on this blog's posts.

The Oath left me almost as disappointed as Revelations

GFree said...

@Anonymous three posts up:

Patrick even said it was a GUESS, it was his guess at what would happen, not a spoiler.

Try to show some respect, even on the Internet.

spinflip said...

Stupid treason, thy name is Felix Brutus Gaeta and thy days are counted.

Katie said...

i loved the episode. i cried because i am a 22 year old baby. i also desperately hope that helo is ok!

ProgGrrl said...

RE this so-called spoiler of Adama in the promo: sorry guys but we've been seeing that shot in promos for like 3 months. I really cannot spoilerize that or delete posts over it. Plus, we have no idea why you-know-who is in that situation. So I just don't see it as a spoiler.

We are OK with speculation here about what we just saw in a promo that has aired. Just don't go overboard and start talking about spoilers you've heard elsewhere, or scripts you've peeked at, or what your friend in the makeup trailer told you is going to happen next.


crone51 said...

Whoa. Starbuck is BACK!

And such amazing acting from EJO and..

Well, damn. That was a hell of an episode.

I sincerely hope the world doesn't end before next Friday.

Anonymous said...

Might I suggest that you use a service like -- this turns the open thread into an interactive "chat" room - just drop some HTML code into your page.

CiL works typically two ways - one person covering a live event (like a speech) or a more open chat room where members of the audience can be pre-approved to post comments into the live blog.

All you'd need is for someone to moderate while the show's on.

(disclosure: I do tech work for them)

ProgGrrl said...

Gods, I am still thinking about Adama's chilling speech in CIC when they take him down. Great speech...and EJO just knocked it out of the park. Part 2 in the corridor with those marines...and the easy way Adama shot that one guy.


Anonymous said...

Seelix and Racetrack? :(

That was probably my favorite part of the episode. Two minor characters we've come to love actually turn AGAINST the "good guys". So frustrating yet so necessary for the episode.

Anonymous said...

I'm with radii. While I enjoy how well acted and directed this episode was (sorry, Ron), I can't help but feel that nothing really happened that we didn't see coming last ep--Gaeta & Zarek staged their coup and the players moved into position for next week. That's it.

At this point, I just want some answers to the lingering questions, not yet another mutiny story (what is this, the fifth?) and everyone running around with guns.

The Baltar scenes and AJ's acting saved it for me.

ProgGrrl said...

That was *so* harsh, how Seelix came in and took Anders. Whoa.

Since many of you folks here on the open threads are interested in the idea of whether or not Zarek/Gaeta are "bad guys" or if their position is a tenable one, and how the show itself plays with we the audience's sense of loyalties...check out this excerpt from Mo Ryan's interview with 415 writer Mark Verheiden:

MO: Do you think that there was another way that Gaeta, Zarek or anyone else could have talked the leadership out of the Cylon alliance? If Roslin and Adama weren't going to listen to dissenters, do you think that a violent seizure of power was the only answer?

MARK: Gaeta tried to raise objections, but he was summarily shut down in the previous episode. Basically, his back was against the wall. What intrigued me when writing this episode was the idea that Gaeta and Zarek were, in fact, "right." Looking at the situation from the outside, the alliance with the Cylons was crazy and dangerous. And the revelation of the "final four" didn’t help. Adama’s best friend and first officer was a Cylon, Roslin’s aide was a Cylon, Chief Tyrol, Starbuck’s husband Anders, suddenly it was clear the entire command structure on Galactica had been infiltrated. On top of that, no one in authority was taking time to explain how this alliance was going to help the crew or the fleet. Gaeta’s motivations were pure, he was trying to save the human race, and that’s the real tragedy of the story.

Of course all that begs a larger question, which is whether mutiny is ever justified. I remember impassioned discussions about this, because while mutiny is the stuff of many dramas, in "real life" it’s an enormous step to take, especially for a loyal officer like Gaeta. But it certainly seemed to me that after all this time on the run in space, in the wake of the disappointment (to say the least) of Earth, mutiny might just happen.

Anonymous said...

I'll have to say I was VERY surprised at this episode. The first two of the season had me really concerned for the fate of my beloved television show. However, The Oath blew me away! Very action packed and tense (with Starbuck back to kicking much frakking ass, mind you) which left me reminded of why I watched it in the first place. And Gods, FINALLY Adama and Roslin. Seriously, we've only been waiting 4 seasons for them get together.

I hearby rate this episode with the "Frakkin Awesome" Award.

Gilraen said...

Aww, no, Racetrack, no.

Yes, some stuff happened last night that has happened before (and will happen again) but the payoff to what Disquiet built up was delicious. I mean, you can sort of call where the plot was gonna go, but it was about, for me, watching the characters' actions that was so much fun. And it seems like everybody's picked themselves up, finally. Tyrol sounded like the Chief for the first time in forever. Starbuck's take it from someone who's died line made my night. Balter is in twitchy survivalist mode, and Roslin...Roslin is back.


Athelstane said...

Every time I think they come up with an episode they can't top - "Revelations," "Sometimes a Great Notion"...

They come up with something like this. This might be even better than "33," and I didn't think that was possible.

Not just great drama well acted - but well written. You can understand *why* the mutineers felt the way they did even as you don't agree with what they actually did.

And the best part is that the mutiny happened because of Roslin's and Adama's failure of leadership. Roslin checked out. Adama badly underestimated the opposition to the Cylon alliance. He simply assumed military command structure and training would see it through. Yet after everything that's happened, the military reached the breaking point.

P.S. My sneaky suspicion is that the preview about Tigh's fate was yet another headfake. They may yet kill off Tigh but I don't think they would do it like that, not yet - not with Ellen yet to return.

Kate said...

Wow--I thought this episode was amazing--well-written, well-acted, just awesome! Like a lot of other commenters, I was so upset to see minor characters that have been totally likeable go over to "the dark side." Seelix and Racetrack especially! :-( Although I did think that Racetrack got a slightly queasy look on her face when they pointed the gun to Lee's head...even if she didn't actually do anything to try and stop it at that point. I LOVED kick-ass Starbuck and Apollo back together again, and Roslin finally snapping out of it and trying to DO something. Can't wait for next week!!

Anonymous said...

Awesomest episode ever.

Anonymous said...

Every time I see that pic of Tyrol & Lee I Jamie standing on a box or something, because he's several inches shorter than Aaron.

Hieu Le Bui said...

I read in an interview from maybe Edward James Almos that not everyone will make it to the series finale so this is what he meant. Looks like more than half of the crew of Galactica are going to be going out the airlocks.

Also looks like from the promo for next week's that Zarek is bluffing and Roslin is going to call his bluff when she gets the Cylon Bayship to fires a couple of nukes at it. I'm betting that after this insurrection we'll be seeing Cylons and Centurians walking the halls of Galactica because of the mass executions by Adama. That's going to worth the wait because of the effects going to take to put that together.

suicideblondjay said...

it's too bad that Adama stayed behind , i would have loved to see Adama in a situation were he struggles with the cylons over control of the baseship in order to rescue the Galactica, can you imagine Adama ordering "launch the Raiders!"

sure we have discussed at length the dangers of the humans making an alliance with the cylons , but if i was a cylon i wouldn't want to be anywhere near these people if Cavil shows up. let's face it the humans are an even bigger mess than the cylons. their government is in disarray and now they lost the Galactica? i thought the whole point of the alliance from the cylon point of view was for Adama to protect the cylon rebels!
if i was a cylon i would high tail it out of there with my superior technology and take my chances out there with Cavil, i bet without the humans holding the cylons back they could find a habitable planet a lot faster.

Hubert Sigler said...

Awesome episode, this season just keeps getting better and batter and has already exceeded season 4.0 by a longshot.

While I know this makes me sound bad but oddly enough I was rooting for Gaeta and Zarek. Somehow I see where their coming from how frustrated it must be to see your leadership embrace their enemy after all that happened despite their noble claims. What makes this such a great tragedy is that it all could have been prevented by Adama/Roslin and they failed to really deal with the situation thathas been boiling for months.

I think Lee said it best when he confronted Ty and said "This is all they (the cylons) left us". Chilling stuff indeed.

ProgGrrl said...

I know a few folks seemed surprised by what Lee said to Tigh. But anyone who's been paying attention to both Lee and Kara's attitude about cylons during the series shouldn't be surprised at all. The only surprise I've felt RE Lee and cylons, was his decision to forge the agreement with D'Anna that the humans and cylons would approach "Earth" together. He needed to be coaxed to that, out of necessity, by both Kara and Adama.

Anonymous said...

Towards the end of the episode, when Roslin was boarding the Raptor, I kept thinking...."They've lost the Liberator (aka final season of Blake's 7)".

Anonymous said...

That episode was one of the most intense things I've ever seen on screen. If not the most.
I think I've awaken all my family not only with shouts but even with my heart beating so frakkin' loud.

1. Why Racetrak, for frak's sake, why? I really hope she'll understand and convert. She's just too good to be a traitor.

2. Hell yea. Finally. Starbuck is back doing the thing she's the best in. Kickin' asses. My godness, I missed her and her gun. And she's even more like "You better run fast, bitches, or otherwise I'll provide your asses with the kick you've never experienced" then ever. I second the one, who said, that she and Lee should get together and shoot some frakkers more often. And one more thing bout Kara - she should have shot the young marine, that Adama let go. Show no mercy!

3. Hell yea squared. Old Man + Tigh + one gun for one hand = some really good stuff. Two tough guys with strong desire to get back what they deserve. In spite of their age, they still remember how to act in close combat with wheezing bullets cutting air around you. And those two guns, one in each hand... I mean, oh, man.

4. I'm not suprised at all about what Apollo said to Tigh. He sticks with father and loyal soldiers and officers, he respects Tigh, he can see what's right, but still, he's able to understand the rebels' anger. And he knows it's at least a little bit justified. That's, I guess, the thing I said in previous episode open thread. That neither Zarek/Gaeta team, nor Old Man/Roslin one can save the fleet, but precisely Apollo. He's the only one, who's able to understand both sides' arguments. Maybe he's also a bit naive and idealistic. But those attributes allow him to maintain the power to fight (unlikely Adama and Roslin). Fight nor only with gun, but the head as well (unlikely Zarek and Gaeta). Especialy with Kara "Die You Frakkers" Starbuck at his side. Hell yea. Bring it.

5. I will probably die waiting all week. Last scene, oh my gods.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone else catch the use of the phrase "howl of suffering"? I *think* it was Zarek speaking to Gaeta over the com link (though I was screaming too much to be sure...). It made my ears perk up, of course, because of the old-guy hybrid in Razor saying the Fifth would "claw toward the light with a howl of terrible suffering."

Misdirection or Easter egg?

ProgGrrl said...

BTW I just heard about the most HILARIOUS BSG easter egg yesterday, and when I get permission from he-knows-who to share it, I'm gonna.

But, it has nothing to do with this ep or with howls of suffering or the hybrid.

Just sayin'.


michelle said...

i would have to say this is one of the BEST episodes they've done!!!!

could you see the rage/angst in adama when he told gaeta/the rebels that there would be NO amnesity????
and the part where the marine touched him!! the poor guy could barely whisper his line. "please sir"!!! that is some AMAZING acting!!!!!

when adama/roslin were making out..the looks on everybodys faces ahahaha.

the only part i thought was a bit weak was the end..why did tigh/adama stay behind?? there was no need..the raptor had more than enough time to escape. they totally could have gone out the hatch that lee/kara went up.

frickin tbc's...

Anonymous said...

Captain Kelly got his 5 seconds leading the marine team going up against Adama and Tigh and the end of the episode. Glad they brought him back - I always felt Ty Olsson got frakked more than anyone else cast in the miniseries going from being a major supporting cast member to a guy who got a bit part.

Nicholas said...

@ProgGrrl: But anyone who's been paying attention to both Lee and Kara's attitude about cylons during the series shouldn't be surprised at all.

I know what you mean by Lee, but I've always gotten the opposite impression from Kara -- ever since she showed enough sympathy for Leoben in season 1 to pray for him after he was airlocked. That, and her friendly attitude towards Athena after their first encounter.

Tighclops said...

Glad to see they are back on track after last week's... lackluster affair. I could barely blink during this episode, and I thought I was going to have a heart attack. Definintely one of the most tense episodes they have done.

Anonymous said...

I don't remember hearing the phrase "howl of suffering", but I do remember Baltar saying to Gaeta over the comm "If you are hungry for redemption..."

Anonymous said...

The thing that I find difficult is that I can understand Gaeta's position and his fear of an alliance with cylons. That actually makes perfect sens given their history of war and no real assurance that cylons will ever operate without ulterior motives. And yet, I have grown to care about these cylon characters. I love all of them for different reasons and a show a vulnerability that is human-like so I sort of pull for them too...I want them to survive...the good ones anyway. One question I still have is about Kara's humanity...or lack of it. If she's found to be cylon, will Lee care? Will he want her dead?

Brisotope said...

The "howl of suffering" thing that is mentioned above got me thinking about old man hybrid talking about the 5th wanting redemption and all that. Now that we know it's Ellen I can see why that whole little speech was in a deleted scene. Ellen is the *last* person on this show that needs "redemption" now, that's for sho!

Anonymous said...

It wasn't in a deleted scene, it was in Razor.

suicideblondjay said...

Why is Gaeta so "bad"?

read this, it's terrific:

Anonymous said...

Frak io9.

A.N. doesn't get this show and I don't care what she says about it.

Anonymous said...

Indeed, most posters in io9 couldn't care less unless a show had lazors and half-naked alien chicks.

Forget the haters, BSG, with this episode in particular, is/was fantastic!

Brisotope said... wasn't in the version of Razor I saw. It showed up later in an "Extended" cut or something on the DVD. Or so I hear. I had to find it on youtube I believe.

Eric Rasmussen said...

I think the Five are trusting the other cylons too much. I mean, this is BSG after all and they seem to not really know much about themselves -- remembering their lives on Earth is not the same as knowing about themselves as cylons.

I didn't think this episode had quite the same poetry as "33" but it was still sweet -- my blood was boiling. Even if Gaeta and that marine leader are vindicated and the non-Five cylons are shown to be up to no good, they will still be executed. Naval/military justice dictates that. That's what Adama was saying as he left the CIC -- there's no good end to this for the leaders of the mutiny.

Eric H said...

@ Eric R: That's a good point about the Five, though the same could be said about the modern Cylons (the Seven) who seemed very quick to assume that the Five were the same kind of Cylons as they are. For that matters, so have the humans.

Sic Semper Tyrannis said...

I am glad someone is finally standing up to Adama and his tyrannical ways. It began with martial law and the cylon alliance is the last straw. I'm really pulling for Gaeta and his cohorts to come through this with a victory. Only problem is they're going to replace Nero with Caligula.

The What said...

Nah, I don't think Zarek is all that kinky, really.

Anonymous said...

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