Friday, February 20, 2009

Open Thread: #418 Deadlock

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Writer: Jane Espenson
Director: Bob Young

Read Mo Ryan's post-show interview with ep writer/producer Jane Espenson (which also includes some questions from Alan Sepinwall).


ProgGrrl said...

Dang it...I wish we had a live chat sidebar on here like Whedonesque. So cool. ::green with envy::

brisotope said...

Disappointed with this one. Another character episode this late? Really? I think Michael Hogan and Tricia Helfer got some interesting emotional scenes, but all in all they should've titled this one "Ellen's Hissy Fit" and been done with it. This is definitely one I won't rewatch.

andy said...

Disappointed, no way. It is really building up to what I can only hope as a great finale.

Even had a tear when Tigh went to Bill after the mis-carriage. Luckily no one was in the TV room at the time.

andy said...

Oh, and Baltar's head 6 is back.


brisotope said...

I'll agree that the emotional scenes were great. I don't think we've ever seen Tigh break down, and we certainly empathize with all the conflicts of the heart going on.

I was also happy to see Head Six reappearing. And asking for guns!

Hieu Le Bui said...

Batlar is really funny in this episode. It's kinda felt like a Buffy episode because it got the drama mixed in with a little humour. Only Jane Espenson can write something like that. For some reason the episode kinda flew by because by the time Adama and Roslin were in the hall looking at the pictures I thought that was the end of the episode already? Anyone felt the same way?

Looks like next week is a Starbuck centric episode. Can't wait because I hope it explains some stuff about her. I mean we got the explanation for the Final Five. Now it's her turn.

Grant Gould said...

If anyone wants to check it out (and ProgGrrl said it was cool for me to post this link :)), we have a review thread for the episode over at too -- no spoilers beyond the episode are allowed, and there's usually some fun intelligent insight:

We do episode reviews there every week, so if you're on LiveJournal, definitely join in on the fun. :)

Eric H said...

Head Six and Vampy Ellen are BACK, boys and girls. Seeing Baltar in over his head is just too much fun. 'Twas a fine episode, in my book. A bit "Days of Our Lives meets BSG" at times, perhaps, but some really great moments and a nice progression of the story in much subtler ways than last week. The very end, at the memorial hallway, choked me up. Ditto Tigh's incredible humanity throughout, for lack of a better word (My god, Michael Hogan just gets better and better. Just stunning.)

Shayna Adelman said...

I love Jane E. I've met her and she is awesome!sauce. That said I am not sure she watches the same show I do.

VERY dissapointing. Some great scenes but not a great ep. At least Sam seems to be waking up maybe?

Oh flipper baby Liam!

Anonymous said...

what i liked about this one:
hogan's acting
lots of sixes
baltar's comic relief
starbuck back in the cockpit and what little space porn we got

what i didn't like about this one:
enough with the cylon drama already
these past two weeks have been completely underwhelming to me, specially compared to the previous two weeks. focus on the humans damn it! more adama, roslin, lee rebuilding the government and hell, even some Helo, was Tamoh Penikett working on dollhouse already? he has not been in these episodes at all!
i care about baltar, i don't care about baltar's crazies, 5 episodes left and the entire secondary storyline in this one was devoted to them?
adama just gave them the guns....REALLY? to baltar's people...REALLY? when did he start trusting baltar? did adama forget he just had a mutiny on galactica a couple of weeks ago? hey, let's get some answers about those people, did adama just forgive racetrack and seelix and narcho? REALLY?
so the cylons have more or less completely integrated with the humans, at least inside galactica. kind of a metaphor for integration in this country but have the humans forgoten, THE CYLONS KILLED 50 BILLION PEOPLE , it's like the jews helping shelter the Nazis just after the holocaust, it's just not gonna happen even if the humans created the cylons and it really is the human's fault for playing God but c'mon!

curious how when the baby died anders woke up,was that an organic memory transfer? if so that's weak.
it's looking more and more like either starbuck is a hybrid or she is the mysterious daniel from last week, if so, weak. she should be a lord of kobol or a being of light or an angel not a cylon.4 to go and i am completely underwhelmed, i am saddened and glad the show is ending when it is, more of this and it would have been ruined. if this is the best jane espenson can do , i don't have much hope for The Plan or Caprica. this episode felt like filler. weak

Anonymous said...

Oh I forgot, I HATED ELLEN in this episode!

crone51 said...

I thought this was more of a bridge ep than a filler ep. The writers needed to get some stuff out of the way, crawl out of some of the corners they'd written themselves into, and set the stage for the end game. sigh. I didn't believe that Adama, even drunk as the proverbial skunk, and Lee *and* Roslin would ever think arming Baltar and his buddies was a good idea, however.

I love Baltar. To me this show has always been about Baltar- I used to think that the main story was the story of Baltar's redemption but I am not so sure he's ever gonna get redeemed. He comes so close and now Head Six is back pulling him off the precipice of becoming an actual decent being once again. Ah Baltar, time is running out and you are still a cad! What's up with that? I do adore James Callis although tonight I am *really* adoring Michael Hogan. Damn he is so very very good.

Oh, and if anyone hasn't read Jacob Clifton's recap of last weeks episode on TVWOP they ought to. It's astounding.

Unknown said...

I agree with suicideblondjay on a lot of points regarding Adama. He's a drunk douche.

Personally, I’d rather the writers spend the last episodes giving us some more mythical revelations and cleaning up the messy details than playing soap opera with Tigh and his blondes.

Hey, at least we know the bar has a piano now!

Here are my thoughts on the episode:

So say we all!

Logan Gawain said...

suicideblondjay brings up excellent points.

Why are the crazies getting guns? They're going to be their own police force down there? That's a *great* idea.

Are the 5 staying or going? The back and forth with the voting was kinda whiplash inducing.

Hogan was great, as was Helfer. But, they introduced a pregnancy just to have it fail? Ok.

And I get from the ending that the Cylons and Humans are coming together on the Galactica. Unification. Always good, I guess.

I think I need to watch the ep again since I think I was drifting and felt my mind wandering during the show...

General Boy said...

Do any of you feel like your are running around in circles when watching BSG these days? I feel like we're stuck in some strange rut.

Why was Ellen so *Ellen* tonight? Since she downloaded, I thought she was Ellen-Plus. A wise, thoughtful scientist, capable of verbally sparring with Cavil. In this episode, she was that mess from two seasons ago: capricious, petty, vindictive, vain . . . it didn't make any sense. Does she have something up her sleeve? That FF re-union was just creepy.

So, Lee, Bill, and Laura just handed a bunch of firearms over to a bunch of religious nuts who are led by the *known* liar, manipulator, and traitor of the human race - Gaius Baltar. Huh?

Funny, the only one who was talking any sense in this show was Saul.

"I know it's not like Zach". Very sad.

Anonymous said...

Am I crazy, or was that Bear McCreary in a cameo in the background behind Starbuck in Joe's Bar? At the very end of the scene, when she's downing the shot.

Logan Gawain said...

That was indeed Bear. He notes his cameo on his blog in his interview post with Michael Hogan.

ProgGrrl said...

I had the priviledge this evening of watching a slightly longer rough cut at a frak party I attended tonight. And there was something really, really key that they had to cut for time (the rough was 11 minutes longer): there are not enough Marines left alive on the Galactica now to handle all required police & civilian duties.

At the beginning of the rough cut version, the Marines give up on the food distribution, sensing a riot. They abandon the food rations...immediately after they leave, the Sons of Aries show up, guns in hand, and take what is left. Also before the credit roll, Adama/Roslin/Lee are arguing about introducing Centurions into the Galactica to pick up the slack in security issues and policing the civvies on the ship. Adama refuses to allow it. At the end of the episode, Baltar's plea to Adama is longer -- he clearly wants his little cult-turned-militia to pick up guns in service of civilian policing and food redistribution. Use his cult, instead of Centurions.

The whole plot thread became that much clearer with this extra material, and gave greater depth to the internal struggle Adama must be going through as he watches his ship become "blended."

ProgGrrl said...

Back to what actually aired now...

There was a lot going on here - we learned that Caprica Six is the first humanoid-cylon model to carry a child that far (Ellen says all other attempts failed much sooner), and by inference we should probably now assume that Hera and human-cylon interbreeding is still the key. As is LOVE.

We learned that there aren't enough military left to police the ship. That Lee and Roslin have actually gotten to the point where they are willing to allow Centurions to join the police force. Whoa. That Ellen, even with her memories restored, and her new body, and everything she went through -- some of the "old Ellen" we knew? Some of that was ALWAYS there, like it or not. That a Six model can turn from a conniving seductress in a red dress, to the pregnant, loving and downtrodden mistress of a married man.

Boomer is back...and it's a pleasure to watch Tyrol's feelings start to reappear. Especially loved how Douglas played it when he walked right up into Boomer's face the moment she stepped off the raptor and knew it was her.

Suddenly Tigh seems bathed in love from all around, eh? Hogan had a lot of heavy lifting to handle in this one. He didn't disappoint. I especially adored the final embrace of his truest love there at the end. ;)

Some of you (and several others at the frak party I attended this evening) feel that too much time in this episode was spent on the Ellen/Tigh/Cap Six plot. Not my reaction in the least. I was eagerly awaiting Ellen's return, and her first reactions on Galactica...her reaction to the pregnancy, to reuniting with the rest of the 5, to the other cylon models she helped create. The whole situation deserved a ton of screen time. I'm thrilled it was allowed. (My only question: at times it seemed like she was saying things to Six on purpose, to hurt her, to make the pregnancy fail. Was I imagining that?)

And yes, viva Baltar and his Head Six. Callis was rocking it here. I do miss Head Six when she's gone too long. I hope she sticks around till the end...

Sam is awake...and next week's ep will give us more Bucker. Huzzah!

Shayna Adelman said...

ProgGrrl, thanks for the info! That does make a lot more sense considering marines looked to be a lot of the casualties in the mutiny.

Any thing else that was lost in the shorter cut? Anything with Kara or Sam? (like her being consulted/objecting to the Cylons absconding with her husband because HUH?)

Unknown said...

Good episode, but I have one question : how did Boomer and Ellen find the Galactica ? There's no explanation there...Was it that easy ? And if so, why can't Cavil and the bad cylons find it too ?

Anonymous said...

Oh, boy. I'm disappointed.
I did expect something more stunning for one of the last five episodes ever. After three brilliant weeks, we got some really average stuff. There were few good scenes, but in overall it didn't go very well. I guess it's director's fault, not writer's one, because plot - if you'll look at it separetly - showed not too bad level.

Tigh was good. Every frakkin' week Hogan proves himself as an extraordinary actor. I was moved by the scene with him and Adama at the end.
Chief looking closely at Boomer's face was good.
Head Six's dialogue ("And guns.") with Baltar was good.

And, sorry, that's all.

Why the frak Ellen was again so ellenish and elleniscious? I thought she has changed. I thought her previous nature was artificially implanted by Cavil and the real one was that, which she showed in last week episode on baseship. Maternal, full of love... I'm lost...
Six's pregnacy introduced only to be destroyed. What for? To show Tigh's emotional side? To show Ellen's who*edom? I really don't get it.
And (blowing trumpets) the most stupid thing ever. Adama giving guns to the group of religious fanatics leaded by proven traitor of human race, just few days after taking care of dangerous mutiny. Someone eager to explain this stuff to me...?

I only hope that my reaction to this episode is influenced by tiredness (your 10pm is my, polish, 4am). I'm gonna rewatch it and I really belive I'll change my mind. At least a bit.

Even if not, I still hold a trong faith in BSG makers and I'm able to forgive them this kind of mistake.

Rasmus said...

Nicolas -- good question!

Dunno. Maybe it has something to do with the fact Galactica can't jump? Maybe the other cylons are too weak to attack at the moment?

Unknown said...

How did they find the Galactica?

A) it is near Earth and Ellen knows where Earth is,


B) Cavil (and Boomer) know where the fleet is but, since they can't resurrect, are avoiding a battle at the moment

Just my 2 cents....

Eric H said...

From what aired, I did manage to piece together why Baltar wanted to arm his little monotheistic-sex cult, but it certainly wasn't explicit. ProgGrrl's excellent info from the longer cut helped bring that into clearer focus.

Although I did like this episode quite a lot, I too feel conflicted about Ellen and her interactions with the Five being so dysfunctional. But that's a hallmark of BSG: characters are deeply flawed and often disappointing, right when we crave clarity and leadership. Instead of a fully redeemed Ellen, we saw a complicated blend of ancient insight and ancient personality disorder. It reminds me of my deep frustration with Roslin a few episodes ago when she mentally checked out.

So while the messy Ellen-driven chaos of last night was emotionally unsatisfying on some levels, it also rang true for me in the context of these character's storylines. The writers certainly didn't take the easy way out, which is a gutsy move with so little time left to finish the story. I kinda wanted the Final Five, or at least Ellen, to be wise, heroic figures. Instead we got handed something else - again :) Although did you notice how Saul is really becoming the focal point of clarity about how to break the cycle of mutual Cylon-Human destruction?

The one thing from this episode I don't really buy is Tyrol voting to leave the fleet. I just didn't see the groundwork being laid for this like I did the other elements of our little Cylon soap opera.

Michael Olsen said...

All and all a solid episode. Hogan is one hell of an actor.

Following up on what Proggrrl said as well as Mo Ryan's interviews and the RDM podcasts: My only beef with this season (4.5)is that there seems to be a lot of important scenes 'left on the cutting floor.' It would have been nice to have longer episodes (does anyone watch whatever it is that airs on SciFi at 11pm?).

Unknown said...

What we need to know.....

1) What is "The Colony" - it seems to be a ship or maybe Ellen's lab, a lush planetoid/moon that Starbuck saw before she crashed into earth? I would like it to be the place everyone is mistaking for the Opera House. Remember when Anders saw everyone lit up during his seizure.

2) Who/what is Starbuck? She is the"harbinger of death" but the death of who? The Caprican cylons and their early hybrids, the 13th tribe, the humans, or the old way of being?

3) Is there an Daniel line in the story? Was Daniel just added to tie-up loose ends, like "sorry Tyrol the baby isn't yours" OR is there a Daniel storyline about to come to the forefront. Possibilities to consider are:
-Starbuck's father
-Starbuck, Gaeta, Baltar (strong possibility because of his head-6), Romo (is seeing a cat that is actually dead?) OR all of them. If the genetic matter was messed up maybe there were several derivations that escaped
-And/or the upcoming Piano player ("he was artistic")

4) Is there a connection given the timing of the miscarriage and Anders brain function revival? It looks like that is what they are trying to imply.

5) Why did Tyrol vote to leave?

The episode (like the previous) did not have the urgency and excitement of the other 4.5's but it is understandable because you can see how the writers knew the whole story-line but then decided to close it down a season early. That's why the developments are happening more quickly than would make for standard drama.

Thank-you ProgGrrl for filling in some of the gaps. The story and where it is going makes more sense with your info.

ProgGrrl said...

@grey: No other Sam or Kara stuff. The trimming came around the major plot lines only. The only other major thing missing that I can recall now: right after Tigh and Ellen have their hello-frak, Ellen asks him why he poisoned her. It is partially played for a laugh. In the bigger picture, it really isn't necessary...even once you trim that (purely for time I am sure), it is still so clear that Ellen is furious with Tigh, and a lot of her actions during the episode are just the usual Tigh/Ellen mind games.

I know a lot of you are sort of PO'd that Ellen is still such a complicated and frustrating character. But I always, always enjoyed her and Tigh and their hot-cold marriage, which has been like this since the day Ellen showed up in season 1 (a frakkin classic ep directed by EJO if I recall correctly). And as Ellen says here, all the Five are still showing the same personality traits they have always had -- even before Cavil did his wicked work.

Bottom line: it all made sense to me. I don't watch this show to witness flawless men and their perfect acts of selfless heroism. That's what STAR WARS and STAR TREK are for. ;-)

Strider said...

I, too, was very disappointed with this episode. It felt disjointed with too much unexplained--e.g., why the necessity to arm Baltar's cult? It appears that the explanation was left on the cutting floor, but without this explanation, Adama's decision to arm Baltar's people doesn't make sense at all. I would also add that Baltar's comic relief seems out-of-place at this point in the series. I think he has emotionally progressed beyond such silliness.

Nor does Ellen's vamping make much sense. In last week's episode we see a very different Ellen, a woman who has become emotionally whole with the recovery of her memories, but in this episode she becomes the old Ellen again, intent simply on hurting Sol and Caprica. It feels almost schizophrenic.

I guess they needed to find a way to kill off Caprica's child and thus refocus our attention on Hera.

All in all, a weak, disappointing episode.

ProgGrrl said...

@Strider: the significance of the cylon children -- full, half, and even Nicky who we *thought* was half -- is obviously being dealt with in detail. Not sure how you could say this ep was just a fly-by-night way of killing a child. Isn't it clear now that the only reason Six was even able to *carry* Liam as long as she did due to her intense love for Tigh (and his for her)? And this was the first time an Earth-cylon and one of their Child-cylons actually tried to make a baby together. Which is inherently creepy, right? All of that, to me, was quite significant.

Oddly enough...last night the whole situation with the difficulty of cylon babies started to remind me a bit of infertile women and what happens to them on the LOST island.

ProgGrrl said...

Writer/producer Jane Espenson discusses the ep and pretty much all the deleted stuff I mentioned, over here on Mo Ryan's site.

Anonymous said...

alright I understand the need to give weapons to the civilians to police themselves and not allow a bunch of centurions walking around but the question remains, why Baltar's people? there are many other civilians in the fleet, give the guns to anyone BUT the crazy religious cult, surely the hungry civilians will put a cap up the ass of anyone trying to steal their food! that's all i'm saying...

good question, how did Ellen and Boomer find the Galactica and Cavill's technologically superior fleet can't?

ProgGrrl said...

@SBJ: but the girls are already used to arming themselves and protecting food for civvies (themselves) WHY NOT THEM?

Meanwhile: Bear McCreary's interview with Hogan is up. How cool is this that he's interviewing everyone this season?!

Anonymous said...

@ProgGrrl:they didn't do a good job, the sons of aries had bigger guns!
i just can't get over the fact that now adama, lee and roslin trust Baltar enough to give him weapons. it's big leap from let's airlock the bastard for what happened in new caprica to let's give him guns to protect the civilians!i guess in a way it makes sense but I'm struggling with it...;)

Anonymous said...

the Bear interview with Hogan is great BTW!!

Asta said...

ProgGrrl, thank you for the recap of the rough cut. I'm really pissed at SciFi right now for not allowing them to run over their allotted time. The Baltar/Lee/Laura/Adama scene made no sense to me until I read your description of what was cut. Now, I get it. I do wonder about Laura arguing for the Centurions to come on board and police the civilians. She is pragmatic, but having lived through New Caprica, I have some trouble buying her advocating that course of action.

You also mentioned that "we learned that Caprica is the first humanoid-cylon model to carry a child that far (Ellen says all other attempts failed much sooner)". I don't recall this being mentioned in the episode. Ellen does state she and Tigh tried for years without success to have a baby, but not that there had been pregnancies that did not advance very far. Or maybe I missed that in some of the overlapping dialogue.

Quellette Bucket & Snipe said...

Loved. I loved it when Starbuck said, “it was like watching my parents make-out.” I especially loved the KFC ad about the word you can’t say on television. Outsourcing security to Baltar’s all-gal goon squad seems nuts but fairly mimics one of our containment strategies in Iraq (for details, read The Gamble by Thomas E. Ricks). Regarding the ep being so Tigh-heavy, I suspect the outcome might reveal more about Jane E’s view of men than about the actual characters, but also elegantly leads us to a deeper compassion for the unfolding and soon-to-be explosive complexity of Cylon/Human integration.

Erick Roebuck said...

I read the reviews and saw the spoilers prior to seeing the ep, so I wasn't as disappointed. Here are some of my thoughts on the series based on some reflection...

1) I'm wondering if Liam "downloaded" into Anders. Anders was brain-dead, after all.

2) Isn't it interesting how cylons must be near death to have visions. Remember that Deanna kept killing herself so that she could learn about the final five.

3) Tigh is really becoming the moral center of this show. His ranting about not becoming a "pure cylon race" was very powerful.

Obviously, this was a character episode to save some money for some awesome FX to send the series out with a bang. But there was still a lot of interesting character growth going on, IMO.

ProgGrrl said...

@Asta: hmmm... Now I'm not sure if Ellen's line was in the aired ep or the rough cut. It's not like I was taking notes. ;)

She makes the comment in sickbay, just before Liam passes away. Maybe someone has time to rewatch? I'll try to do it later today. But I believe Ellen says, that it's a miracle that Six's pregnancy even got this far... That none of her Children-cylons have ever carried this far before. (I assumed she is referring only to Children-cylon babies. Obviously the 13th Tribe-cylons had TONS of babies...)

General Boy said...

@Everyone Wondering how Boomer found the Fleet:

I was wondering the same thing, but then I began to think, "How do the cylons *ever* find the fleet?" Remember the nebula?

Roslin - "How did they find us?"

Adama - "That's the question, isn't it?"

The only time the cylons *couldn't* find the fleet was when they were hiding on New Caprica, which was shrouded in a magical space-cloud that was impervious to sensors. It was dumb luck the cylons found the residuals of an atomic explosion in the neighborhood.

So, it seems the cylons are always able to find the fleet somehow. Boomer finding it in this episode was, actually, business as usual. I don't think this has been explained in the series.

Regarding the Speculation of Liam downloading into Anders: I have two words for you: "goo goo". I don't see how downloading the mind of a fetus into the head of an adult male cylon is going to move the story forward or even make any sense. I could be wrong, though. I am often wrong.

@profrobuck: Regarding your 2nd point, Caprica 6 and Athena weren't near death when they were having their visions. They were asleep, though.

@ProgGrrl: Many of us are neither confused nor disappointed by Ellen's behavior because she is complicated. That's what we love about the characters in this show (cf. Baltar; Boomer; Zarek; Adama; Adama; Roslin; Thrace; Tyrol). Everyone is conflicted. Everyone grows new dimensions to their character. However, it is because Ellen is behaving in a way that is inconsistent with the New Ellen we were all introduced to last week. She seems to have reverted. For 18 months, she was a cool, calm scientist. She was even able to wax philosphic about the nature of love to Boomer. She wasn't crass. She wasn't a drunk. However, once she lands on the Galactica, she turns back into the old Ellen. A vamp. We're expected to believe that *this* Ellen made the intuitive leap that brought resurrection back on line? That she worked night and day on that project? How could she have done that if she were drunk and frakking Tigh night and day? On the baseship, she saw the big picture. On Galactica, she only saw the small picture - her, Tigh, Caprica - all petty and vain. That's what's so jarring to us.

I'm hoping that the DVD release of this season has extended versions of the episodes, like the "Razor" release did. Maybe things will make a little more sense to the viewer, then. Pipedream? Probably. At least there will be deleted scenes.

I'm still wondering about last week's episode when the "Frakkin' Brain Guy" said about Sam's MRI, "He has a remarkably clear image", and then Starbuck gives this cryptic look at the monitor. What was that all about? Did I project some importance on to that scene that really wasn't there?

The show this week wasn't a dud. There were frustrating moments - again, Ellen's behavior and THE ABSOLUTELY CRAZY IDEA TO GIVE BALTAR AND HIS CRAZY CULT A BUNCH OF FIREARMS! (Excuse me, I got a little panicky there). I liked how the story moved back to the motif that cylons can't have babies without love. Right when Ellen and Saul get it on, the show cuts to Caprica having a painful cramp. When the love of Caprica and Saul was put in jeopardy, the baby was lost. Good stuff.

Helfer was on fire in this episode. The individual interactions between Caprica and Laura and Ellen were really strong. The scene where she loses the baby was powerful and heart rending. Really a terrific performance.

It makes sense to me that Tyrol voted to leave. He's loyal but practical. He knows that human beings will never accept cylon beings. It's just a matter of time. Sure, the humans need the cylons now, but what happens to them when they finally get over the hump? Bullet to the gut? Airlock? In his mind, it's just a matter of time.

Finally, I am mostly worried about this!

Peace to all my fellow BSG fans. I enjoy participating in these threads. What will we all do with ourselves after March 20th?

General Boy said...

OK. The Mo Ryan interview helps me.

ProgGrrl said...

Frankly, I am having a hard time believing that fandom's issue with the armed Grrl-cult has more to do with the facts and drama at hand, then it does with a deep-seated, culturally unconscious sexism...

Eric H said...

@ ProgGrrl: I think most people are just puzzled because insufficient airtime was given to the rationale. But yeah, once you're past that, why not the Grrl-cult? At least they are organized and actually getting something done. Regardless of how loony Baltar's cult may have been in the past, he found upon his return an efficiently-run group that was taking care of itself pretty nicely. And despite Baltar's, shall we say, spotty track record, he does have a way of organizing people. Given the pinch Adama and Roslin are in, I can see them choosing the lesser of the evils in granting his request. Now, that is not to say the whole thing won't blow up in Baltar's face. In fact, I rather hope it does :)

Mr Laccetti said...

Yeah, I had been unsure about the cult-militia thing too, but thinking about it it makes a lot of sense (but would have made more with the deleted scenes). Lee and Roslin are on much better terms with Baltar now, and the cult acted as Tyrol's eyes and ears during the mutiny, completely loyal to Adama. In some earlier scenes this season we've seen military officers down there listening to Baltar (remember when Tyrol attacked Hot Dog?) And Baltar has a history of impressing himself upon the civilians, like with his little political treatise.

Also, Lauren has a great point: "Outsourcing security to Baltar’s all-gal goon squad seems nuts but fairly mimics one of our containment strategies in Iraq (for details, read The Gamble by Thomas E. Ricks)." In Iraq we have constantly paid off dangerous fundamentalist groups in order to gain assistance with keeping the peace. I remember one story (I think actually on Colbert, ha) of a U.S. soldier who asked one of these people if he still wanted to kill him--the man responded, "Yes. But not today." So why wouldn't something similar happen on Galactica, especially when the links between Baltar and the administration run much deeper, the cult shown itself to voluntarily helpful in the past, and in general their religious beliefs less hell-bent on the destruction of Colonial society? In other words, all positive qualities that the Centurions are lacking, and the skinjobs can't even control them anymore.

So, I buy it. But I doubt it will end well.

ChrisHartwe77 said...

Although the episode did not contain any huge revelations, I really enjoyed the return to the lighter tone with the Batlar scenes as well as the return to the foundational elements of are humans and cylons really different, the cylon's need for love to procreate, ect. Simple but beautiful.

taterman said...

Ok so up until this episode, Gaius's main loves were

Gaius, God, his groupies, and Gaius again.

Now we can add Guns and Groceries.

Anybody else see a pattern here?

Greg said...

I'm not sure why people are freaking on this was fine. However, we're seeing a recurring pattern here where to fit for time they are cutting out things that really do make these episodes make a hell of a lot more sense.

This thing with the lack of marines and the fact that they ACTUALLY CONSIDERED USING CLANKERS on Galactica is like, freaky. So Gaius being Gaius but also sensing that that idea would go over like a lead balloon AND using the situation to head off a leadership challenge from the cute but deadly Paula made a lot of sense.

As for Ellen, well I can see why she'd go a little bonkers after a) being killed by her husband b) hanging with her renegade creations and then c) finally escaping and then finding out Tigh's been getting it on with what she considers to be one of her "children." Yeah, that'd freak anyone out.

I sincerely hope they put some of the cut stuff out of this and some of the other episodes in to the DVDs.

As for "The Plan" and "Caprica", well whatever. The episodes Jane's written definitely have a distinct "feel" to them and I'm not sure that's a good thing or a bad thing. it IS a thing though.

Pinkhamster said...

Biggest out-of-character moment: Roslin is apologietic and becomes highly embarrassed and flustered over possibly offending Caprica Six when inquiring whether or not her baby is "important."

Why would Roslin feel any timidity or deference in front of CAPRICA SIX, who she knows murdered the entire population of her home planet?

Anonymous said...

@ ProgGrrl: sexism?
as aired the stuff with Adama giving Baltar the guns made no sense whatsoever, if sci fi didn't allow the show makers enough time to fit the ENTIRE storyline into the episode, instead of butchering the episode in editing to fit the allotted time how about simply cutting the whole frakking storyline altogether and saving the fans of the show the continued headscratching, that is all

Unknown said...

Was dissapointed with this one, I had the feeling that this was the last standalone episode almost, with the remaining five or so episodes building up to the finale.

That said, there were a couple of stand out bits for me:

1. Kata saying that watching Saul and Ellen kiss was like watching her parents - I reckon she is actually their daughter and was born / downloaded on this colony that Ellen mentioned in the previous episode

2. Loss of the baby very sad

3. Galactica and her repairs. They will repair the ship but think the series will end with them all living together in harmony on this secret cylon colony as a result of the galactica being sacrificed to save the fleet. Que a Captain Kirk style moment as he watched the Enterprise self destructing

Should start a few debates I'm sure!

Anonymous said...

I highly enjoyed this ep, and think it's a wonderful harbinger of things to come with Espenson at the helm of "Caprica." Not an enormous amount of advancement of the major arcs, but full of delicious interactions between the characters that were simultaneously unusual and highly authentic. Espenson has such a tremendous depth of understanding of who these characters are, coupled with an obvious deep affection for them, foibles and all - she enables each actor to fully inhabit their characters. I feel like this brings a unique warmth, vibrancy, and sparkle to her eps. It's just wonderful to watch these characters - well, *people* - we love, just ... being the people we love.

Unknown said...

Frankly, I am having a hard time believing that fandom's issue with the armed Grrl-cult has more to do with the facts and drama at hand, then it does with a deep-seated, culturally unconscious sexism...

*cracks up* Um. No. We have a problem with the extreme illogic of it. If Baltar's cult were boys, we would still be going "no, wait, what?"

Craig Ranapia said...

OK, I'm going to stick up for Ellen here. (Never thought I'd type those words...)

1) Why is it awesome when Michael Hogan plays a drunken kinky bastard with a shitty attitude, he's Mister Awesome. When Kate Vernon does, she be the Whore of Babylon. Are you absolutely sure it's the material, and not what you're projecting onto it?

2) Oh, and she's kind of pissy when her husband not only knocks up another woman, but doesn't have the cohones to tell her himself (before fraking her would have been polite) so she can find out in the most humiliating and public way possible? Hell, if my boyfriend pulled that on me, what Tory did to Cally would be kind by comparison.

And all this nonsense about Ellen being "[f]or 18 months, she was a cool, calm scientist." OK, that's one reading. I thought she was showing the extreme caution anyone would when trapped with a dangerous animal. After all, she knows intimately exactly how perverted and sadistic 'John' really is. What was done to her on New Caprica wasn't rape or incest, but it was pretty damn close in my book -- the kind of sadistic sexual humiliation and emotional torture I don't even want to coin a name for.

But she's back with Saul -- the head games, the self-deception and secret agendas, the constant need for drama and conflict. And always the "love" that might be passionate and enduring, but also looks a hell of lot to me like two co-dependent alcoholics constantly relying on the other to enable their addiction. As a recovering alcoholic, I've always found the Tighs painful to watch together. And I don't see why they should be any different as Cylons.

John could wipe their memories, but he couldn't totally re-write their personalities. And why would he? Tyrol still became a brilliant engineer. Tory became an ice-cold pragmatic campaign operative who would steal an election if that's what it took. And I don't see a big stretch from Sam Anders the sensitive jock, to Sam the squint Dylan. But despite all that, they couldn't stop the Holocaust. Again. What a delicious final twist of the knife when they downloaded -- memories restored -- to admit to their first-born son that they were always wrong.

crone51 said...

ProgGrrl - I don't see the reaction to Baltar's group having really big guns being fueled by sexism ( and I tend to see sexism so much ) but by the fact that it's Gaius Frakking Baltar , who the Adamas and Roslin know is not exactly someone they'd call trustworthy , is in charge of said group. There are men in that group as well -it's just BALTAR! He's a cad. He's my absolute favorite fictional cad in the universe but I wouldn't trust him with much of anything.

ProgGrrl said...

@Pinkhamster: I really feel Sepinwall has the best answer to what you're saying:

"Ellen's arrival -- and the distrust she immediately engenders among the fleet hierarchy -- also leads to the marvelously squirmy spectacle of Laura Roslin trying to make nice to Caprica Six, whom she views, along with Baltar, as the face of the colonial genocide. Right here, right now, Laura sees Ellen as the greater potential threat, and so she tries to use Caprica as a wedge against her, then gets sidetracked by her fear that Liam may be part of the grand Cylon plan, only to be shamed into recognizing that Caprica is, whatever her other crimes might be, a very scared, very protective expectant mom. (Hey, even some of history's worst monsters had kids.)"

@Asta: OK I went back and re-watched that scene at the end with Ellen talking to Six (just when Liam dies)...and sure enough, the line I am referring to above was NOT in the aired verson. It must have been in the rough cut. Basically Ellen was saying that no (Children-)cylon has ever taken a pregnancy this far into term before. The inference being it is a huge proof of the love that Tigh and Six have shared.

Phaedrus said...

I got the distinct impression that Anders downloaded into Liam's body during/after the bullet removal surgery. Wasn't it right after that scene of him going brain dead that Caprica-Six was talking about Liam "just coming alive" and kicking.

And then right after Liam's passing we get that shot of Ander's brain scan suddenly showing some activity?

Maybe it's not just physical death that can cause Organic Memory Transfer but a loss of brain function.

Once Liam's body died, the OMT was initiated again and by this time whatever brain issue that had caused his initial transfer had passed and he was able to download into his own body again.

Just a theory, but I don't think it's just a coincidence.

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