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There's also no indication in those episodes you mention that it is <I>not</I> our Earth. Not showing the moon doesn't mean it isn't there.<BR/><BR/>It's possible that the Lords of Kobol came from this Earth and thus we are them, as Adam suggests above. But right now I'm leaning toward human life evolving on Kobol, and the LoK mythology having as much basis in reality as our Greek mythology. So basically Earth would exist in Galactica's universe, but it would have a different history from the Earth in our universe.Rasmushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17035622310779849421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-2227826153792106082009-02-18T09:04:00.000-08:002009-02-18T09:04:00.000-08:00“Cylon Earth” is NOT our Earth. Go back and watch ...“Cylon Earth” is NOT our Earth. Go back and watch “revelations,” or sometimes a great notion. There is no indication that it is our Earth. There is no Moon visible at any time (remember Kara’s recon photo?). We don’t see any recognizable continents, nor do we see Saturn, Mars, Jupiter, etc. on the way in. Earth, I suspect, is “the colony” Cavil spoke of. How they are going to get past the matching constellations tho I don’t know.Mike Barahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17172462170076618847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-48827447704828724912009-02-17T18:54:00.000-08:002009-02-17T18:54:00.000-08:00@ Adam W: Very interesting conjecture about the Lo...@ Adam W: Very interesting conjecture about the LoK being descended from people of our Earth and creating the colonial human race. That might tidy up a few loose ends, now that I think about it.<BR/><BR/>@ General Boy: The little Hollywood spotlight moment of the Final Four + Kara was indeed interesting. I thought for a minute we'd hear an announcer in a booming voice say "Kara Thrace...this is your CYLON LIFE!" (cue schmaltzy theme music). But seriously, I love the ambiguity about whether this was just some kind of neurological halo induced by Anders' seizure that immediately followed, or he really was seeing something about Kara's nature.Eric Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687908374545158426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-84591401294327522192009-02-17T14:41:00.000-08:002009-02-17T14:41:00.000-08:00John/Cavil clearly states that the human ancestors...<I>John/Cavil clearly states that the human ancestors crawled out of the ooze...</I><BR/><BR/>Cavil states that <I>Ellen's</I> ancestors <I>didn't</I> crawl up out of the ooze, but I guess that does imply that the first humans did. In any case, it isn't terribly specific, and naturally the atheistic Cavil would never attribute the creation of humanity to gods.<BR/><BR/>Second, though I don't want to start some religious argument on a Galactica thread, there are in fact religious traditions that allow for both god(s) and evolution . . .<BR/><BR/>Finally, people in our day write in symbolism and allegory all the time, in newly created religious traditions, the arts, and in political discourse. It shouldn't at all be surprising that an oracle would write that way (especially, as Adam pointed out, if oracles are still around in Galactica's present that speak that way).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-19455167060854898112009-02-17T08:10:00.000-08:002009-02-17T08:10:00.000-08:00Hodgman was a great addition, I loved him.I was su...Hodgman was a great addition, I loved him.<BR/><BR/>I was surprised how well the episode held together under the stress of all of that exposition and explanation plunked in there. Can't wait till next week!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-43704827659944399912009-02-17T07:00:00.000-08:002009-02-17T07:00:00.000-08:00I'd like to watch this about 10 more times too, bu...I'd like to watch this about 10 more times too, but a couple of thoughts right off the bat. I thought bringing John Hodgeman on was really gimmicky and disappointing and totally unnecessary. And, secondly, is Gaius the one true God? I have never understood how he survived that blast in his house when Six said "get down".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-63620579922754832322009-02-17T04:51:00.000-08:002009-02-17T04:51:00.000-08:00The Final Five didn't teach the Cylons about the O...The Final Five didn't teach the Cylons about the One True God, the Centurions had already reached that faith by themselves. The reason why is given in CAPRICA.<BR/><BR/>As for the evolution/creation argument, Cavil's words seem to clash with RDM's, namely that the Lords of Kobol created man, man created the Cylons. Unless the theory that the Lords of Kobol are hyper-advanced humans who genetically engineered a 'new' race of humans who in turn created the Cylons is correct, this implies that the Colonies have a similar religious/scientific argument going on over evolution and creation to that currently taking place in the United States.<BR/><BR/>If, however, the Lords are real beings and did create the Colonials, that would explain the lack of any ancient fossil evidence on Kobol which in turn would greatly boost the credibility of the Colonial religion (since that lack would 'prove' the Lords created them, especially if they had lost earlier knowledge that they, or the Lords, had come from Earth).<BR/><BR/>The scrolls are an excellent point. The date of '4,000 years ago' is given in some quarters for the departure of the 13th Tribe (Ellen seems to retcon it to 3,000 years though), but Pythia only created the scrolls 3,600 years ago. My guess is that since Pythia was an Oracle and the two Oracles we have seen in the series speak in riddles, possibly using drugs, that's simply how they chose to interpret their prophecies even though more advanced technology was available.Adam Whiteheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11383677312079611311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-65159813418406375662009-02-16T21:50:00.000-08:002009-02-16T21:50:00.000-08:00Oh! One more thing: I like how Tory, Tyrol, Saul...Oh! One more thing: I like how Tory, Tyrol, Saul, and Kara light up right before Sam has his seizure. They all light up - just like they did when they appeared as a vision in the temple on the algae planet. Is that a foreshadowing? Is Kara Daniel? Not a Final Five model, sure, but a cylon?General Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07154132944256062588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-39642484608969037452009-02-16T21:29:00.000-08:002009-02-16T21:29:00.000-08:00Here are some things I can't reconcile in my mind ...Here are some things I can't reconcile in my mind about the BSG mythos.<BR/><BR/>1. We know that human beings lived with the gods on Kobol, right? They stole the knowledge of creating life from the gods and, presumably, made cylons.<BR/><BR/>John/Cavil clearly states that the human ancestors crawled out of the ooze or something to that effect in this episode, meaning that humans were created through some process of evolution. <BR/><BR/>So, where did this evolution take place, and who were these gods on Kobol? We know their names, but these concepts are are mutually exclusive on Kobol, aren't they? You can't have evolution *and* gods on Kobol. Which one is it? It is interesting that it is a cylon who first mentions evolution and not a human being. <BR/><BR/>In other words, it is part of the BSG universe that human beings biologically evolved and, so, were not created by gods (please, spare me any ID arguments). Is it possible that these gods were descendants from another Earth - our Earth. They went to Kobol with their cylon technology and made their first set of skin jobs (the colonials)? It turn, is it possible that *these* cylons made their own cylons by stealing this knowledge from Earth's ancestors (i.e., human beings; gods), starting the cycle? Could, then, everyone in the show be some sort of artificial being? Am I losing my mind? <BR/><BR/>The show up to this point has not made clear the creation of the human species. We know they lived among the gods, and we know, per Cavil, they evolved from the ooze. <BR/><BR/>2. How is it that the scrolls, written by a technologically advanced society, were so primitive? Why all of the metaphors and symbolism? The people who wrote the scrolls were able to travel through space and make cylons. Wouldn't these records be more scientific and precise? It was written for the sake of posterity, right? Wouldn't all the writing be less cryptic? These weren't illiterate farmers and fishermen that were putting this all together, right? <BR/><BR/>3. Who is this One True God? Does he or she have a name? The Final Five, ostensibly, believe in this being. It turns out that it was they who taught the colonial centurions about Him or Her. Was it their belief in this One True God one of the reasons the original skinjobs left Kobol? How did this myth emerge on Kobol? <BR/><BR/>I'm done. Thank you for indulging me. It's pretty late now to post on this thread, isn't it?General Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07154132944256062588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-61101125316734877632009-02-16T18:17:00.000-08:002009-02-16T18:17:00.000-08:00"Here's my one big problem: if the 13th tribe came..."Here's my one big problem: if the 13th tribe came from Kobol and populated earth, how do you explain the fact that earth has billions of years of fossilized evidence clearly showing human evolutionary development? Shouldn't all that evidence be on Kobol, not Earth?"<BR/><BR/>We haven't seen that in the show. BSG-Universe-Earth might not have the same fossils that real-world-Earth has on it and in the BSG-Universe, Kobol has those fossils on it instead. That's a bit of a cheating answer though.<BR/><BR/>My guess is that they will never definitively say how long the Cycle of Time has been going on for, so the original origin point of humanity may well have been Earth 50,000 years ago or something, but humanity and their Cylon creations have bounced back and forth between Earth, Kobol and the Colonies so many times since then that they can't tell where they originally came from. The First Hybrid hints at that in RAZOR when he says "All this has happened before and will happen again, and again, and again," ad infinitum until he got blown up.Adam Whiteheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11383677312079611311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-51731980275761897352009-02-16T12:56:00.000-08:002009-02-16T12:56:00.000-08:00Jane and Ryan's answers are up:http://featuresblog...Jane and Ryan's answers are up:<BR/>http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-no-exit-ellen-cavil-boomer.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-35069586159091445442009-02-16T09:05:00.000-08:002009-02-16T09:05:00.000-08:00does anyone think it's possible that Daniel's cons...does anyone think it's possible that Daniel's consciousness or SOMETHING ultimately became the raiders? When Ellen calls Cavil out on killing Daniel he says something along the lines of "flesh is so weak... something stronger would have been better... metal, maybe?" And we know that the raiders can identify the Final Five (one scanned Anders at the Ionian Nebula), presumably meaning they've seen them... Plus we still don't know where the current model of raiders came from, although we presume that, like the skinjobs and the new-model basestars, they were developed by the centurions with the help of the Final Five...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-21703168777281066752009-02-16T07:51:00.000-08:002009-02-16T07:51:00.000-08:00Greg- Jane Espenson pretty much answers your quest...Greg- Jane Espenson pretty much answers your question on Maureen Ryan's site, IIRC ( and I should- having just come from there but my short term memory is ....uh...old). <BR/><BR/>Of course, I trust nothing these writers tell me.crone51https://www.blogger.com/profile/06831571973211180467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-48711165119699069712009-02-15T13:19:00.000-08:002009-02-15T13:19:00.000-08:00@Karen James - I guess we're not on the first cycl...@Karen James - I guess we're not on the first cycle here.<BR/><BR/>Interesting though that there seems to be an understanding of evolution (Tigh's comment about a germ) despite that there can't be millions of years of fossils on the colonies...Luke Surlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07368581791308772930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-69360014958469440742009-02-15T07:19:00.000-08:002009-02-15T07:19:00.000-08:00Overall I loved it -- I think the "all this has ha...Overall I loved it -- I think the "all this has happened before and will happen again" is just so smart. Isn't creating servants who then revolt against us the mistake that human beings make and will continue to make?<BR/><BR/>The thing that I can't resolve, though, is that the centurions asked the FF for their help in making skinjobs -- skinjobs who then became the masters of the centurions?? Remember when the rebel cylons removed the free-will inhibitors in the centurions? Is this a flaw in the narrative or something yet to be explained?byibzhinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17198922188163192268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-942984786420290312009-02-15T06:54:00.000-08:002009-02-15T06:54:00.000-08:00Here's my one big problem: if the 13th tribe came ...Here's my one big problem: if the 13th tribe came from Kobol and populated earth, how do you explain the fact that earth has billions of years of fossilized evidence clearly showing human evolutionary development? Shouldn't all that evidence be on Kobol, not Earth?Karen Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03597701284348386435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-67180034751643889582009-02-15T05:36:00.000-08:002009-02-15T05:36:00.000-08:00Is John Cavil just one copy of the Number One mode...Is John Cavil just one copy of the Number One model, or many? Is this petulant criminal mastermind one individual or is it the whole frakkin' line?<BR/><BR/>Consider:<BR/><BR/>1. We know that the skinjobs, or at least the Eights, can download each other's memories and incorporate them into their own identity after a fashion (as Athena did with Boomer, ditto the Eight who helped Helo blow the resurrection hub and admitted to downloading Athena's memories). <BR/><BR/>2. Despite this, they still function as distinct individuals with free will (Exhibit A: Athena's decision to defect even <BR/>though she told Tyrol she has Boomer's memories).<BR/><BR/>3. Ellen notes several times when Cavil directly messed with the Five in their recent "human" incarnation: Tyrol's confession, Anders' resistance movement, Saul's torture, and of course with her. (BTW at least one of these Cavil copies was airlocked out of range of a resurrection ship, in Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II.)<BR/><BR/>So: even if we assume every copy of the Cavil model knows what "John" knows from shared memories, does the entire line also act as a collective expression of an individual personality and will? If so, that would seem exceptional vis a vis the other models. <BR/><BR/>Discuss.Eric Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687908374545158426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-53391473840991398892009-02-14T23:30:00.000-08:002009-02-14T23:30:00.000-08:00Based on the dialogue, I am assuming that the Dani...Based on the dialogue, I am assuming that the Daniel line is completely gone.<BR/>Sam remembers creating eight, but just hasn't remembered Cavil's treachery.<BR/>His memories are coming back in pieces.<BR/><BR/>It seems that there may have been at least one Daniel model that was fully developed before Cavil destroyed the line. Could that Daniel model have sired a child with a woman called...Socrata Thrace?(In reading the posts, I'm glad I wasn't the only one to pick up on this.)<BR/><BR/>This is also the second episode where we see Adm. Adama downing prescription pills. Could <B>he</B> be the dying leader mentioned in the Scrolls of Pythia and not Rosilin; or that they collectively are the the dying leader. In a way, Galactica is also dying. That's the trouble with prophecies, they are always open to interpretation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-7802831000325942952009-02-14T22:03:00.000-08:002009-02-14T22:03:00.000-08:00I watched it twice because there was so much in th...I watched it twice because there was so much in there...and again, I get the impression that they've left almost too much out, so a lot of things dont make as much sense until you see the deleted scenes (but I shan't disclose what I know).<BR/><BR/>However, this episode more or less confirmed my theory, that the clankers from Cylon War 1 could NOT have evolved so quickly on their own AND also allow for the dumping of the FF into the human population.<BR/><BR/>That said, the folks who populated "earth" really should not be called "cylons" since they were NOT a direct evolution of the clankers on Caprica, et al. They are a distinct group of humans from Kobol who simply found a way to reincarnate/download, and are using it (the clankers did n't have that ability).<BR/><BR/>We also now know why John Cavill is such an asshole. I mean, really, can we box this mofo? Clearly he's insane as are his brothers. <BR/><BR/>It is also interesting to see how the FF basically built the skinjobs we see today, but not being Gods, they made mistakes with all the models making them a weird combo of human and artificial mistakes.<BR/><BR/>This also explains how skinjob Cylons would know so much about Kobol et al.<BR/><BR/>I wonder what will happen to Anders...will he resurrect on the baseship? or is resurrection just plain dead?<BR/><BR/>Other fun moments: Chief, finding out he lived with Tory "What like roommates?" and seeing how BIG the engine room is when Chief and Adama talked.<BR/><BR/>overall these are fine, but I really hope they try and make a dvd version that reincorporates some of the material that they're deleting for time because like with Pegasus, it really did help.Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02639710572191340548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-28566911071580137652009-02-14T21:18:00.000-08:002009-02-14T21:18:00.000-08:00OK. Question:Why did Starbuck give such an ominou...OK. Question:<BR/><BR/>Why did Starbuck give such an ominous turn of the head and look to the monitor when the surgeon said, "He has a remarkably clear image"? What did she see?<BR/><BR/>Also, when Ellen asks if John has taught Boomer about the swirl, was she talking about <A HREF="http://www.livevideo.com/video/E4C4B0B1B76B493FB96B7A714A494D7B/seinfeld-the-fusilli-jerry.aspx/" REL="nofollow">this</A>?General Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07154132944256062588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-14972964263304155882009-02-14T16:19:00.000-08:002009-02-14T16:19:00.000-08:00My goodness. Kate Vernon stood her ground this wee...My goodness. Kate Vernon stood her ground this week. It's great to have her back... She more than stepped up to the plate. Again, just shows the acting calibre which Battlestar has. It was a thrilling ride and i can't wait for the next '5' episodes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-62165625247727672002009-02-14T16:06:00.000-08:002009-02-14T16:06:00.000-08:00From TV Guide...Starbuck meets a musician named Sl...From TV Guide...Starbuck meets a musician named Slick.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com