tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post6619000771761979731..comments2023-11-05T04:45:10.017-08:00Comments on GALACTICA SITREP: Open Thread: #414 A Disquiet Follows My SoulLogan Gawainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04278696479800563683noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-31470056298614511732009-01-26T22:31:00.000-08:002009-01-26T22:31:00.000-08:00Thanks to all for the welcoming responses to my fi...Thanks to all for the welcoming responses to my first post here. Nice to read, and never a given to receive enthusiasm/grace on teh internets.<BR/><BR/>Reflecting on this episode a few days later, wondering about the knot in my gut it left (even as it had me laughing in all the right spots), I recognized part of it as a loathing of, well, loathing - of Gaeta, Zarek, even Adama and Roslin. How can they all be right, and each be so wrong? And where in hell is this leading? Not to overplay this, but... to languor, it seems.<BR/><BR/>Beats riding the tide out to sea, I suppose. Even if it has all happened before, and will again. <BR/>Frak, but RDM can sure muddy my waters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-26618605505558599982009-01-25T19:20:00.000-08:002009-01-25T19:20:00.000-08:00I've been wanting to comment about this episod...I've been wanting to comment about this episode, but I've been putting it off because it left me flat and confused. It helped to watch it again. Forgive me if I'm repeating points that some of you have made in earlier posts - I only skimmed over most of them. <BR/><BR/>I'll just make some minor observations.<BR/><BR/>1. I'm fascinated that I found myself sympathetic with Gaeta and Zarek's cause. Every complaint they have has merit. I have taken for granted that the major protagonists of this show have been right about everything. But what if they're not? <BR/><BR/>Despite the sinister feel of the Gaeta & Zarek meeting, it brought many things about the show that I have taken for granted into doubt. And isn't that what this show is all about? Everything one believes may be called into question - whether that person is a character on the show or a viewer of the show. Since Earth turned out to be a cinder, I'd say all bets are off and nothing should be taken for granted. There's a great deal of freedom in that, isn't there? <BR/><BR/>2. Baltar, my favorite character, will forever frustrate me. Is he redeemed, or isn't he? Has he found love for others or not? Is he self-centered or not? He's complicated and capricious.<BR/><BR/>Thinking about his caprice, I wondered about the etymology of the word "caprice". Does is share its root with capricorn? Caprica? Anyway. I can't find anything about it on the internets.<BR/><BR/>3. I think I will enjoy this episode more in retrospect. Right now, I'm that kid in the back of the seat yelling, "Are we there yet?" I want to know all of the answers now! It's hard to endure episodes that expand characters rather than propel the story - at 11:00 pm on Friday nights when the series is so close to its end. <BR/><BR/>There will certainly be a reckoning, and it will be interesting on which side each character falls in the end.General Boyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07154132944256062588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-74945879175419158762009-01-25T15:57:00.000-08:002009-01-25T15:57:00.000-08:00@Alurin: Yeah, that makes sense. I loved that line...@Alurin: Yeah, that makes sense. I loved that line from Zarek. <BR/><BR/>Although we kinda know how this rebellion's gonna end, I also totally see where Zarek and Gaeta are coming from on the leadership question. But the kicker is that I also felt like shaking Laura and Bill throughout this episode, telling them to stop acting like children.<BR/><BR/>Not many dramatic narrative works can so completely mess with viewers' loyalties like this. I find myself feeling confused and divided, much like the members of the fleet. What they are doing is astonishing art.Eric Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687908374545158426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-30936992404814563442009-01-25T15:32:00.000-08:002009-01-25T15:32:00.000-08:00@Eric H: They didn't explain it, but they did refe...@Eric H: They didn't explain it, but they did refer to it. Apollo is criticizing Zarek, and Zarek snaps back: "Are you the President now? I can't keep track of what your job is from week to week." Or something like that. Presumably the motion which allowed Adama jr. to take over for Roslin during her prior absence expired, and la famille Adama is less popular now.Alurinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03234467903499324664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-53862007058900811112009-01-25T14:27:00.000-08:002009-01-25T14:27:00.000-08:00Nitpicky plot question: Did they ever explain how ...Nitpicky plot question: Did they ever explain how come Zarek is running the government (for the moment) this time, but last time the Prez was MIA, Apollo had to take over because Papadama wouldn't hear of Zarek doing so? Obviously having Zarek in charge is necessary to this story line, but did I miss an on-screen explanation for it?Eric Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687908374545158426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-77370635948068681882009-01-25T14:20:00.000-08:002009-01-25T14:20:00.000-08:00Great post Ripley!ProgGrrl et al.: I think Juliani...Great post Ripley!<BR/><BR/>ProgGrrl et al.: I think Juliani's comment is telling. The Gaeta/Zarek argument has a lot of merit. I think that the writers INTEND for the viewer to be suspicious, because WE don't trust Zarek and we love Bill 'n' Laura. Objectively, however, there are two valid points. One: Zarek is the only legitimately elected leader they have. Roslin's legitimacy was tied to the pre-holocaust administration, and that administration expired with the election at the end of Season 2, which she LOST. She's President again now because the Baltar-Zarek administration was discredited by Baltar's Vichy turn, but she has still never been elected.... and no one elected Adama either. Two: the Cylons, even the rebel Cylons, were willing to nuke them all just days ago. A little caution would seem to be in order before letting them fiddle with everyone's FTL drives, much less giving them a seat on the Quorum.<BR/>The nice thing here is that we distrust these perfectly legitimate arguments for purely emotional reasons. Wouldn't it be an interesting twist if Zarek turned out to be a good leader?<BR/><BR/>As for the timing of the webisodes, Face of the Enemy is very clearly set in between "Notion" and "Disquiet". The meeting with Adama and tyrol that Tigh invites Gaeta to at the end of the webisodes is clearly the meeting in "Disquiet" where Tyrol acts as emissary from the Cylons. The man Gaeta is going to meet with, against Hoshi's objections, is clearly Zarek.Alurinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03234467903499324664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-78986531411255461752009-01-25T14:15:00.000-08:002009-01-25T14:15:00.000-08:00@ProgGrrl, that quote from Juliani is nice. It rea...@ProgGrrl, that quote from Juliani is nice. It really shows how these actors have gotten into these roles and the complexities of the story. Over at Galactica Watercooler, they recently interviewed Richard Hatch on their podcast...it was as if Tom Zarek himself was talking. From what I could tell there was little line to distinguish where Zarek ends and Hatch begins!brisotopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17349428569829670369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-59307526606535364892009-01-25T12:59:00.000-08:002009-01-25T12:59:00.000-08:00@ProggggGrrl: just a dyslexic typo, scusi.@ProggggGrrl: just a dyslexic typo, scusi.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-62722598132278799442009-01-25T12:26:00.000-08:002009-01-25T12:26:00.000-08:00@ProgGrrl: precisely! I don't see how Gaeta can be...@ProgGrrl: precisely! I don't see how Gaeta can be described as the bad guy at all! Starbuck's failure as a leader cost him his leg, and her refusal to do what was right almost got him airlocked. Does she acknowledge this at all? Not in the least. He is FAR from being the bad guy.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058181251132560150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-87928028390923788912009-01-25T10:04:00.000-08:002009-01-25T10:04:00.000-08:00From Bear McCreary's blog entry on this ep:This sc...From Bear McCreary's blog entry on this ep:<BR/><BR/><I>This scene also represents a crucial shift in Gaeta’s character. I asked Alessandro Juliani when he first learned that Gaeta would become a baddie. And he quickly replied <B>“Baddie? Who said anything about being a baddie? I mean, if resisting an alliance with a race of malevolent, deceitful robot-people responsible for the genocide of humankind, enforced by a bunch of ‘leaders’ who time and time again had proven to be completely misguided and hypocritical in their policies is bad…who wants to be good? If what you meant to ask was when did I find out that Felix was to assume the mantle of being the moral center of the show, then I believe it was during the filming of the now infamous ‘Stump Serenade’ that a certain Emmy-nominated writer who shall remain nameless first hinted at his heroic destiny.”</B></I>ProgGrrlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06241425484095464878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-1256636203557456972009-01-25T09:21:00.000-08:002009-01-25T09:21:00.000-08:00@Ripley, yes, great post. And as you and any dedic...@Ripley, yes, great post. And as you and any dedicated BSG fan knows: this show absolutely holds up to the sort of scrutiny (metaphorical and otherwise) you are putting it through above.<BR/><BR/>"I clearly read a lot into this show. I love it, and have difficulty separating individual episodes from the collective whole, the succinct plots from the arcs, and both from the overarching theme evoked in the very first line in the show: 'Are you alive?' Hell, I even wedged a place in the BSG canon for 'The Woman King'..."<BR/><BR/>You're not the only one, RE everything you're saying above! (I liked 'Black Market' and am unrepentant about it -- how can any Apollo fan not appreciate it, says I? But that's an old argument I don't want to reopen here...)ProgGrrlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06241425484095464878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-50583831096915724692009-01-25T06:56:00.000-08:002009-01-25T06:56:00.000-08:00@ Ripley - Great post, and thanks for the poem ID....@ Ripley - Great post, and thanks for the poem ID. I just looked it up (easily Google-able), and it really does resonate with this episode, and more.Eric Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687908374545158426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-24423092555410356692009-01-24T23:08:00.000-08:002009-01-24T23:08:00.000-08:00Hi, first post here from a Sitrep reader/fan.I fou...Hi, first post here from a Sitrep reader/fan.<BR/><BR/>I found the episode heavily informed by the first verse of the Emily Dickinson poem Adama recites (to himself and to the viewer), 'There is a Languor of the Life,' at the beginning. Languor - a listlessness and mental fog, with implications of oppression if not post-trauma depression, but also containing some beaten-down sense of liberation - plays out for many of the characters and in the major plot developments. Roslin checks out of her duty-bound savior-of-humankind role but rediscovers her body, even as it decays; Adama goes through the motions (the second time he brushes his teeth, pausing for a long time to gaze in the mirror, was pretty rending), consumed by his sense of having let everyone down, but eventually sharing himself with Roslin in the only way he can without thinking or deciding or commanding. Zarek taps the languor by reasserting his self-important martyr conceit, while Gaeta plainly gives in to bitterness and his ever-present/barely-concealed loathing (which likely includes himself). Baltar captures the moment by requiring an apology from God (at least in part to, as he's advised, 'just keep talking'). The fleet fractures, if half-heartedly, as The Quorum applauds itself for being led like sheep. <BR/><BR/>There are more positive aspects to the languor, to the realities of life after 'the soul has suffered all it can': Tyrol - former-chief, ouch - accepts his disconnection but can't deny his fatherhood-by-proxy. Tigh, becoming a father, conversely accepts a connection - with Six, and with himself as Cylon; if his concession to fatherhood (simply staying sober) seems pretty meager, for poor old Saul, it's a big frakkin' deal.<BR/><BR/>Okay, I clearly read a lot into this show. I love it, and have difficulty separating individual episodes from the collective whole, the succinct plots from the arcs, and both from the overarching theme evoked in the very first line in the show: 'Are you alive?' Hell, I even wedged a place in the BSG canon for 'The Woman King' (throw tomatoes now), with some effort. So go gentle on the newbie.<BR/><BR/>And hunt down the Dickinson poem. The rest of it fits the episode, and is startling, especially the final line. RDM called this one a 'small show'; his ideas never seem small to me. Frakkin' momentous, actually.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-79806433294223885282009-01-24T21:33:00.000-08:002009-01-24T21:33:00.000-08:00@zme1 - I think Gaeta's not out to frak everyone b...@zme1 - I think Gaeta's not out to frak everyone but himself, but I think he finally wants to get his, as was evident by his conversation with Starbuck. He's done with morality and the higher standard. Now he's looking for what satisfaction he can find in purging the fleet from those who've put him in so much pain and compromised his values: cylons, Adama, et all. Just my interpretation. I agree about Nikki, though. It was clearly written just because the writers didn't like the situation, and I think no matter how it was handled it would've come off as being a bit easy/lame. <BR/><BR/>@Progrrl - Yeah, their points are really the disquiet that follows this episode. I, at least, caught myself dismissing them because we've spent all this time with Adama, and we're rooting for <I>him</I>. Really sneaky episode, this one. Can't wait to see how everything it's built will pay off.Small Shachathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16060241220216518385noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-74428844592964485112009-01-24T20:32:00.000-08:002009-01-24T20:32:00.000-08:00it's just that we don't know what the frak starbuc...it's just that we don't know what the frak starbuck is,going on what i've seen so far i believe she may be some kind of divine being and if she will lead them all to their end maybe there is some kind of revenge plot against the humans AND the cylons. we know that the colony humans created the robot cylons but we don't know who created the humanoid cylons. maybe a cylon is part of a human race like the capricans or the saggitarons and we will learn that it's been humans killing humans all along and a robot is a diferent thing that was mistankenly called a cylon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-50406872397794146172009-01-24T20:07:00.000-08:002009-01-24T20:07:00.000-08:00zme1 raises an interesting point about where Gaeta...zme1 raises an interesting point about where Gaeta's limits are or how much gumption he really has. You could say he's capable of real action now, compared to not being able to pull the trigger on Baltar, because he's recently killed the Sharon in the Gaetasodes/webisodes. But maybe in that final webisode he killed that Sharon because he felt his life was in the direct path of danger? not the least his self-concept. With Baltar it obviously wasn't that kind of situation. I didn't watch the final webisode that closely so maybe others can fill in the details on that Sharon's stance toward Gaeta. Did she kill all the other shuttle members so Gaeta would have enough air? <BR/><BR/>Good call one of you on the fact that the Chief beat up Callie at one point, which could very well explain why she might have sought the comfort of someone else. If that's true, then Hotdog could have had a good comeback in response to the Chief beating on him--that he himself played some role in it.Rebecca Walshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02544160744334452702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-10677123477578975252009-01-24T18:03:00.000-08:002009-01-24T18:03:00.000-08:00@ProgGrrl - They've got a great argument, and they...@ProgGrrl - They've got a great argument, and they've obviously got lots of backers. But what about a plan? Where do they expect to go with this happy revolution? I seem to remember a base ship full of nukes hanging out in the middle of the fleet... The anger part makes sense, but I would think that Zarek would think ahead a bit more. Gaeta is consumed by bitterness. Esp. if you take the webisodes into account, his whole view of himself as the good guy, thinking the best of people, was destroyed. Now his attitude is frak everyone but me. And it's sad because I thought he was a likable character. I also think he's going to botch it, like the 'Butterfingers' attempt on Baltar.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17453663603345179020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-20715516867197435292009-01-24T15:15:00.000-08:002009-01-24T15:15:00.000-08:00@dts: did you *really* just call me "prop grrl"? R...@dts: did you *really* just call me "prop grrl"? Really? ;-P<BR/><BR/>@Ciaran: The argument Zarek/Gaeta are making is too powerful to not be taken seriously just because of who is making the argument. IMHO.ProgGrrlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06241425484095464878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-12053245035513264032009-01-24T13:49:00.000-08:002009-01-24T13:49:00.000-08:00I enjoyed the episode, but it did have its flaws. ...I enjoyed the episode, but it did have its flaws. What got to me most was that the Gaeta/Zarek argument (about humans still being wary of the Cylons and the how far the alliance should go) has a lot of merit, and could have been executed very effectively, but those two completely unsympathetic characters were the only ones on that side of the fence, so the position dies due to guilt by association with them.<BR/><BR/>I like the idea of cutting Tyrol off from humanity by having him not be Nicky's father. It adds on to his pronoun/possessive adjective problem at the beginning of the episode when he can't decide which race he is part of.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-49787431065068147582009-01-24T13:09:00.000-08:002009-01-24T13:09:00.000-08:00ADFMS review up at http://www.galacticavariants.bl...ADFMS review up at <BR/><BR/>http://www.galacticavariants.blogspot.com<BR/><BR/>mostly favorable<BR/><BR/><BR/>I agree with many of the other posters - Gaeta's got it comin' ... they will probably blast his other limbs off before delivering the coup d'graceradiihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06271430506982033059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-65811506013898212009-01-24T12:56:00.000-08:002009-01-24T12:56:00.000-08:00@suicide - if one side created another I would thi...@suicide - if one side created another I would think it would be humans doing the creating. Maybe the Cylon God is a human in a V'ger story sort of way.<BR/><BR/>@propGrrl - I wasn't sure on this either but I think in the commentary to this ep. RDM restates that it all began on Kobol then twelve went to the Colonies and one tribe (now, presumably all Cylon) went to Earth. <BR/><BR/>That's about the right proportion of creators to created if you think one car per household, then casualties.<BR/><BR/>Then, how about if both groups get tired of washing their own dishes and create mechanical helpers. We get almost parallel 'it has all happened before and will happen again' rebellions. Except, the cylon problems in the Colonies happen much later and so probably with influence from Earth survivors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-9114247834979625022009-01-24T12:42:00.000-08:002009-01-24T12:42:00.000-08:00after watching this episode with all its "OMG the ...after watching this episode with all its "OMG the shit is going down and it's going to go badly" overtones, I realized something.<BR/><BR/>If you really think back allll the way to Season 1, of all the characters that's been a jerk, Gaeta is one of them. His naive, schoolboy politics consistently get people in to trouble. And he's always great at lining his own pockets (he sure wasn't suffering during the occupation) and now he's moralizing about cylons? He worked for the cylons, he frakked one, and NOW he's the human revolutionary? He had no business talking to Starbuck with his smack and she shoulda broken his nose for good measure.<BR/><BR/>I think in the end, though , what I'm most curious about is the creation story because a lot of it is not really lining up. They found a planet full of diverse Cylons, of which we know at least the 5 are the resurrection of a group of. (ooh bad grammar). Was it Earth (probably not - maybe Earth As Was?) I mean we never saw any continents or anything.<BR/><BR/>And the Starbuck Issue. Leaving this out as long as they are, it's going to become a distraction, to the point where by the time they resolve it it won't have any meaning. Or it'll come too late/conveniently (Star Trek, anyone?)<BR/><BR/>These are nitpicks, I guess the problem I have with scifi series in general is how a character can completely forget their past, as do the folks around them, and they're allowed to be something completely different (Gaeta being one example) and there's none of that "huh?"<BR/><BR/>I mean, who the frak would follow along with a guy like Gaeta who had the chance to ice Baltar and wimped out?Greghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02639710572191340548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-16107157926259623582009-01-24T11:36:00.000-08:002009-01-24T11:36:00.000-08:00Yah, we all know Gaeta's toast, probably Zarek too...Yah, we all know Gaeta's toast, probably Zarek too, and I have a baaaadd feeling about Helo's chances over the next couple of episodes. So I'm expecting a progressive bloodbath fer sure. But they HAD BETTER NOT FRAKKIN' KILL OFF COTTLE. This show needs more Cottle and we all know it. It's bad enough there's no more D'Anna. I mean, really, people.Eric Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07687908374545158426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-73929544523014201482009-01-24T10:59:00.000-08:002009-01-24T10:59:00.000-08:00@ProgGrrl...I am hoping for some male deaths soon ...@ProgGrrl...I am hoping for some male deaths soon too, especially Gaeta. Zarek is more interesting to have around, but I wouldn't mind him getting off'd too. Lee wouldn't be a bad one to go either. He's only a slightly more together version of Cally ;)brisotopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17349428569829670369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20273746.post-47861950954843218392009-01-24T10:33:00.000-08:002009-01-24T10:33:00.000-08:00@suicide: IDK about that. I mean, if there are 200...@suicide: IDK about that. I mean, if there are 2000 y.o. cylon bones...who created the cylons? Are they a creation of the original 12 colonies, or were they already in existence before they met humanity? Were these ancient cylons on Kobol too, with the original humans?ProgGrrlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06241425484095464878noreply@blogger.com